The Christmas PC Brigade does it again . . .

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Roger Thorne, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    Heard on the Radio last night that a Hospital has now banned Carol Singers from performing on the wards - something they had done annually for many, many years. However, they were given the opportunity to sing in A&E and the staff canteen! - They politely declined! Add to that the announcement a few weeks ago that some councils are banning the performances of non-Christian Christmas music does anyone have any other PC stories to tell?

    Here a few more 'seasonal' stories I've found:

    The Daily Mail reported how home office officials are threatening to withdraw funding for a memorial carol service for the victims of crime because it is "too Christian". Even though the service (held at St Martin-in-the-Fields in Trafalgar Square) has been helping grieving relatives of homicide for 11 years now politically correct civil servants are warning that they are going to pull the plug on funding unless the service tones down its Christian content.

    The Daily Mail also reported how Inland Revenue staff have been banned from donating to a charity which helps send toys to needy children because of its links to Christianity.

    Lambeth council officers have are being careful to use the terms: "Winter Lights" and even "Celebrity Lights" - but have omitted the word Christmas from all promotional literature.

    Birmingham Council renamed Christmas 'Winterval' and Jobcentres banned Christmas trees and decorations.

    The Eden Project in Cornwall banned its employers from wishing people a Merry Christmas because the name Christ was in the greeting and it may offend people of other religions.

    The Red Cross charity shops have banned nativity scenes from their window displays at Christmas times because they do not want to have any religious imagery on display.

    Some shopping precincts throughout the UK banned the Salvation Army and other Christian groups from singing carols to shoppers in case they offended other religions.

    There has been a recent push to try and ban Bible's from hospitals. Leicester health trust in particular has led a push to ban them, claiming the presence of Bible's in hospitals will offend other religions.


    :(
     
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  3. alks

    alks Member

    Its all madness, Unfortunately, its all part of the the current trend towards "control freakery" that the current administration seams to inflict on us.

    alks
     
  4. 4thmandown

    4thmandown Member

    Though there are some PC zealots out there, and I'm most certainly not defending their woolly liberal tendencies, some of the stories are actually urban myths perpetrated by the right-wing press. (c.f. the report from the Guardian, Friday 8th December. OK it's a woolly liberal paper!!)

    More worrying is the story of the school that had its annual carol concert banned by Dudley Council because ONE complaint was registered by a "local resident". I'd quite like to meet the complainant and shake them warmly by the throat.

    Some of the proceeds from the concert were to go towards the purchase of new musical instruments. I view this complaint as an insult to all musicians working with school children, given the uncertain status of instrumental teaching in schools. Perhaps this rather selfish person might well like to reflect on that.

    One good thing that local councils did however was ban a "Reading Millionaire's" charity christmas lights; ostensibly because of policing costs, but having seen a picture of them, perhaps it was more to do with preserving good taste!
     
  5. iggmeister

    iggmeister Member

    Doesn't this all stem from how people view Christmas?

    For Christians, it is a celebratory time about the birth of Jesus. Carols etc are an important part of that.

    For other religions, it may not be an important time of year.

    For those who have no real religious inclinations, carols etc are all things they associate with their definition of Christmas. To that has been added non-Christian things e.g. Christmas trees, decorations, Father Christmas etc and, because they are now associated with the Chritian festival, they too are deemed inapppropriate.

    From that perspective many people aren't objecting to the fact the main faith is being restricted but that their secular version of Christmas is. There is an irony there.

    Having said that, Christianity is the main faith of this nation. I believe other religions should respect that and should simply accept it. Of course Tony Blair has just made his integration/ multiculturalism speech. Its a hot topic.

    I doubt the reverse situation would happen in favour of objectors in the Middle East to, say, Muslim festivals but that perhaps is a credit to Britain that, so far as is possible, all people's views are considered.

    From a banding perspective it is a time of year when lots of funds are raised (again, on the back of a Christian festival) and, to save us from having to play the green books all day, we also capitalise on the commercialisation of Christmas. We want it (and rely upon it) to raise funds.

    Its a difficult one.

    Igg
     
  6. T Winch

    T Winch Member

    When did we stop being a Christian country? Why is it that an employee can be ordered not to wear a Christian symbol for work but if the same thing is done to a Moslem there is uproar? We are so terrified of treading on the toes of any ethnic minority in case of causing offence, that Christmas has become a dirty word yet our schools feel obliged to embrace all manner of other religious festivals. My 3 year old daughter recently came home from nursery telling me they had been learning all about Diwali. Now I have no objections to that at all. I think it's important that our children learn all about other cultures. But not to the exclusion of our own culture. The thing that annoys me most is that it's not Moslems or Hindus or Seihks or Jews or whatever that are telling us we can't celebrate Christmas. It's faceless, narrow minded, politically correct idiots. Maybe if, instead of being told what to do by these people, more of us should say this IS a Christian country and I WILL celebrate Christmas. As for the banning of Christmas decorations, don't these ignoramuses realise that they have their roots in pagan celebrations and have little or nothing to do with Christianity?
     
  7. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member

    This kind of thing is really starting to wind me up...I'm not a religious person, but this is a Christian country, why the hell shouldn't the people of this country be allowed to celebrate their own religion without fear of offending people from other denominations?!?!? You don't see Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist (or whatever other religions you care to think of) shying away from being able to celebrate the customs of their religions in their own countries for fear of offending Christians?!?!?!??? And rightly so!! It's complete madness!! You don't even see them toning down their religious beliefs here...the only idiots daft enough to do that and pander to the minorities (who probably aren't even offended by any of it) are the goody goody liberals of the western Christian societies who think that wanting to tell people what you believe in is some sort of dirty word or crime.

    Get real people...this is an integrated society (INTEGRATED!!!) meaning Christianity has every much as big a part to play in it as all the others!!!

    Never though I'd see the day when I'd stand up and defend the rights of Christians, because quite frankly i think the whole religion thing is...well, you reall don't want to know what I think of it...but this "Ooh lets not call it Christmas because it contains the name of the person that our whole belief system is based on and someone might be mentally scarred by it" rubbish is really starting to do my chump in.
     
  8. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Oh we had a lovely time recently with my 2 year old at the switching on of the "winter" lights and unveiling of the "winter" tree. What a **********

    Sorry mods, but it makes me angry.


    Mod edit: I totally agree, but that's still no reason to try to outsmart the tMP bleeper ;)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2006
  9. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    Well said. :clap: And in fact, if you speak to any of these so-called offended minorities they are not in the least bit offended by Christmas, or any other Christian festival. They are much more offended by the fact the some prats believe that they are intolerant enough to be offended.

    The sooner we get rid of this PC nonsense the better.
     
  10. bigmamabadger

    bigmamabadger Active Member

    'Deed it is. Apart from raving fanaticals, (of which every religion has a few) people of differing faiths are rarely "offended" by symbols of other's faith.
    Mainly I think, because it actually means so little to them. I'm not offended by Diwali, I simply know nothing about it. It wasn't part of my upbringing, not part of my faith. I find people are usually quite interested in other people's festivals, I'd love to go to a Hannukkah party, or a Hindu wedding. The only thing I'd find offensive would be if I was told I had to have one myself, rather than choosing my own way of celebrating.
    And, as so many people have pointed out, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is a Christian country.
    Many people died to make this a country of religious tolerance, and we so nearly made it. All this rhetoric does is hand support to the BNP on a plate by fanning the flames of paranoia.
    Now you see you've made me rant and I'm supposed to be watching my blood pressure...
    BMB
    xx
     
  11. midnight_euph

    midnight_euph Member

    Hey.. I'm NOT a Christian by any stretch of the imagination (being a white polytheist) but I am still doing my stint at the carol concerts. Though I do get fed up with 'one-wayism' whether it's Christian, Islam or pagan.

    Oh - and for many years I was a member of the Royal School of Church Music so that shows HOW upset we indiginous non-Christians get!!

    Fran
     
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  13. ekimmort

    ekimmort Member

    I was in a sweet shop about 15 years ago, when someone came in and asked for an Advent Calendar, but he wanted one that had nothing to do with Christmas.
     
  14. midnight_euph

    midnight_euph Member

    Christmas PC

    Yeh I can understand that, seeing as 'Advent' only means 'the coming' or 'precurser to'... well in this case we can say 'advent' to the birth of Mithra, Buddha, Christna, Horus, Attis, Dionysus, and Zoroaster as well as Jehoshua ben Joseph (Jesus, the Annointed/Christ), let alone Winter Solstice/Winter Sunstanding.

    Confused why you're confused.
    Fran
     
  15. flashbarry

    flashbarry Member

    We are all celebrating Christmas in Oman, all the shops and hotels are decorated with Christmas stuff and the residents all love the occassion wishing all the expats Merry Christmas and the like, I don't see what the problem is.
     
  16. cornishscot

    cornishscot Member

    Our local TESCOs was selling an "advent" style calendar for RAMADAN this year. Probably sold quite a few as well as this part of London (SE25) is seriously multi-ethnic but we do not have the race riots of other districts and cities of the UK thankfully -everyone living in perfect harmony with each other (just as it should be) regardless of race, colour, creed or spoken language of choice in use by same.

    Do think the PC brigade have gone too far this time renaming Christmas "winterval", banning Christmas decorations from offices and the nonsense about Bands/choirs not playing or singing "Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer", "Jingle Bells" etc. really O.T.T.

    I have often received Christmas cards from Muslim friends (& plenty from non-regliious friends of any persuasion) so it is clear to me that not everyone who is non-Christian, in the true meaning of attending church regularly, confessing Christ as their saviour, feels the same way as the PC brigade.

    ******* Spoil sports - that's what they are.

    P.S. our works "end of year party" in 2005 was renamed "Christmas party" this year so it looks as if you make a stance on your views people do sometimes take notice if you and act accordingly .......... and it was a good 'un !!!
     
  17. SuperMosh

    SuperMosh New Member

    Just to throw a curveball, I work in Nottingham City, live in Staffordshire and play in a Derbyshire Band. I know people from Leicester, Northampton, Lincoln and Rutland. I also have family in London. Not once have they mentioned PC or the apparent effect of this. These people I know are not all Christian and fair to say, embrace the multi-cultural range of Blighty.

    Now, I am no expert in socio-geography but not once have I personally encountered any form of PC dumbing down Chrimbo. We are having a Christmas Party at work, (two actually as I work for two organisations), going for a Christmas Meal (at a Mexican restaurant bizarrely enough) and are sending Chrimbo cards to all and sundry.

    Forgive me, but is this PC nonsense just a by product of the so called upper class tabloids as they are bored with lambasting asylum seekers / Labour politics?
     
  18. Vickitorious

    Vickitorious Active Member

    Winterval? :eek:

    Hahahaha!! Thats the sort of name that me and my mates would come up with for a laugh!!

    They can't be serious? LOL
     
  19. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    The "Winterval" suggestion I believe dates from about 1999, and was in response to the suggeston that the lights etc should go up for Divali and stay through Christmas. I don't believe the term is still in use.

    I find it particularly interesting to see that moslems and christians are joining together to defend the celebration of Christmas: it reinforces what I have felt for some time, that it is not so much the members and traditions of other faiths that are a threat to Christianity so much as the equal opportunities industry, with its terror of possibly causing offence.

    As for the question of whether we are living in a Christian country, apathy is surely one of the main dangers: there is overwhelming evidence that churches tend to thrive in the face of persecution, or in times of national emergency, but that complacency sets in when things seem to be too easy.
     
  20. DesignNotes

    DesignNotes New Member

    Its worth bearing in mind Christmas is a pagan festival, its links to Christanity are somewhat weak!

    Just a though! Laurence
     
  21. T Winch

    T Winch Member

    Just wanted to recount two experiences from the weekend. Firstly, our band spent best part of Saturday and Sunday playing Christmas carols outside a local supermarket. It please me to note that donations were put into our boxes by all colours and creeds. If anyone from other religions was offended by us they forgot to show it
    Secondly, we played at a carol service for a local Methodist church on Saturday night. The church was a quarter full (if that) of people few of whom were under the age of 50. We heard the same readings as we did last year and the year before that. Sang the same carols as we did last year and the year before that. The only two children present were with the band. Mr Bale has a point when he talks about apathy. Maybe we only have ourselves to blame. I know this is not indicative of what is happening at churches up and down the country. My wife attends the Salvation Army at Sunderland Millfield as does my brother at Norwich whose carol services are vibrant, joyful celebrations where there is standing room only, but anyone attending Saturday nights service who was considering attending a church regularly would not be in any hurry to return.
    By the way Laurence, Christmas itself is a Christian festival (hence the name). The early Christians just decided to celebrate the birth of Christ at a time of year when there was already a pagan festival and lot of the paraphernalia surrounding it such as Christmas trees, decorations etc have their roots in paganism (as far as I know)
     
  22. The SA at Gorgie have not been affected by PC-ness - so far. We are actually being allowed into our local shopping centre more than we ever have before. Many people of different faiths will pause and listen to the band before moving on. No one has ever, to my knowledge, came up ranting and reaving because we have offended them!
    However, it is a completely story at the secondary school I work in. They tried to ban the christmas assembley so that people of other faiths in the school are not offended. That caused a bit of an outrage amongst some staff and so we are now having a christmas assembly. I won't know the exact content until it happens but I do know we are having it in the school building instead of going to the local church, and I have heard that we are not singing any carols and there will be no religion preached. What is the point in that?? I think its important for children to know the reason why they have this holiday and what christmas is all about - they don't have to do anything with that information after they hear it so I really don't get what the problem is!!!????!!!!!
     

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