Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Feefee, Dec 3, 2004.
I was just wondering what model of Soprano Cornets people find best and why?
Though by no means an expert sop player, I've found it difficult to fully settle with any I've tried. Schilkes are good but.... each and every one I've played over the years has a flat middle G sharp (and with no alternate fingering, unless you wish to risk playing an A with the first valve trigger all the way out and lipped down, not useful!) I find Yamahas pretty reasonable, though, so for me, if it's VFM you're after, probably the Yamaha. Nevertheless, tuning wise, I've yet to come across any Eb cornet as consistent as numerous Eb trumpets I've played (or tried to...)
Shilke is probably the best. The beryllium bell gives it a beter sound, and is used by most Sop players.
Although it is personal preference, I know that Pete Roberts has a (proto-type )Yamaha, Keven Crockford had one but doesn't think much of it and uses a Shilke. Fitzy (Mark Fitzpatrick Sop @ Hawthorn Australia) uses a Besson Soveriegn. I used to play one and found it really hard to blow, then moved onto a Shilke, which in comparison is a lot easier and sounds better.
I agree with Dave that the third valve is dodgy, but to be honest, how often does it get used?!
The more Sops you try, you will eventually find a niche.
Ive got a courtois one at da moment and think its gud ( for me!)
Im using a 4c mouthpiece too which is a trumpet mouthpiece. Ive been told i wud be able to play even higher on a normal sop mouthpiece.
What notes can you reach on the sop out of curiosity?
I use a Yamaha 4d7d, which for me is just about right, I can play high and keep a rich tone. when you use a shallower mouthpiece it is easier to play higher, but the sound becomes more thin. I can get top C's reletivley easly on the Yamaha mouthpiece, anything above C becomes a struggle, but im working on it!
I have a Vincent Bach 10 1/5 E which is rediculously shallow... I can get Super E's on it! but I sound shocking! (like a trumpet... no offence to trumpeters!!)
Im not offended dont worry seen as though i play a trumpet too and a Bb cornet!
You can play high!
I can only play bout top Bb on a gud day!
But then again do you think thats gud considering ive only been playing sop for 2 and a half years?
Ive only been playin' about a year and a half. (learnt when I was a kid but gave up for about 10 years)
Top Bb is very good! to be honest you dont really need to play much higher. Generally, its pieces in the higher sections that playing above Bb is really necessary. (Birdland is a killer Sop piece!)
Keep it up though, keep at it and it will come!
Best thing to do is keep playing the lip-slur excercises in the Arban (think its pages 42-45)
In the dark ages of my youth when I was forced onto Soprano cornet. I could hit top C's and on one occasion actually got a top C# in a concert, and finally hit the optional top D in Mack and Mabel, about a week before my lip went and went on to Tenor Horn. I was using a Kosicup prototype mouthpiece, or that was what it seemed like, and it was an antique Imperial. Most of the players I know use Schilke's, but what do I know, I'm a bass player on a mouthpiece bigger than your bell
Thanks for your advice!
I will definatly keep it up and hopefully in the near future i can move up to bigger sections.
Ive already helped out a championship band on Bb cornet (asked me to play sop but i was very nervous at the time so just stuck to cornet - wish i hadnt though now). Ive also helped out a third section band and a fourth secion band out last year at a butlins mineworkers competion in skegness. Never forget that one!
I played there too. My first contest! was a great laugh. Played Haselmere Suite. (had a top Bb in it if I remember!)
Indeed it did!
Did you listen to any more bands in fourth section?
Can't remember... we were second on (i think) came third tough.
That whole weekend was a bit of a blur.. drinking absynth!
Hows come because we came 3rd!
I was with Grange Moor Band!
It was in November 2003?
must av been 4th! told ya... was all a blur!! :guiness:guiness
Yup i understand!
Funny thing is i practised with the band bout 2 month b4 not been able to get the start of movement two, even in the night b4 and still on the actual day i got it and every1 was glad coz i dont know wot i wud have done if id have got it wrong!
I was petrified of them!
I use a Besson Sovereign with the trumpet mouthpiece attatchment as I use a Bach 3C trumpet mouthpiece in it. I have tried it with a 3C cornet mouthpiece but I don't realy like it.
I have tried a Shilke sop but the sound doesn't seem to blend with a cornet section as it is basically a reshaped Eb trumpet. (Shilke's Eb trumpets are fantastic to play mind you!)There are a much nicer instrument to play but the sound doesn't match. My Besson is a bitch to get around on and the upper register is realy unresponsive. I've had the second valve slide shortened and that has solved a bit of the tuning problems (I still have to play most top B's on 1st and 2nd). I don't mind the sound at all on even though I use a trumpet mouthpiece. All round it isn't a bad instrument if you can put the time in on it. It has zing in the loud high stuff and if you work hard, it's nice in the soft stuff. Ok all round tuning too. It's a nice solo instrument too.
I've haven't tried a Yamaha sop for years but I'm sure they have come along in leaps and bounds like their trumpets have. Never tried a Cortois sop either.
*Range is a very personal thing. If it is written you can play it. I've only seen parts up to top Eb (Covantry Variations) but top D's are becoming more frequent. I'm usually fine up to a top F on a good day but I've never even come close to using it. Thats getting into screech territory! *
Anything above a top C is screech territory for me!!
Coventry was a bitch! As Fitzy knows, I really struggles with it (at the time i'd only been playing a year and was no where near the top Eb!!)
Ive had a go on a Curtois (a brand new one too) and didn't like it so I used a battered Shilke they had had for years!!
I supposes that everyone has there own preferances.. if I tried Fity's set up I reacon I would really struggle!
I must be lucky; I've heard lots of people complain about that middle G#/Ab, but my Shilke Sop doesn't seem to suffer from it. On the other hand I have a Schilke C3L 'C' trumpet which has exactly that problem ...
It's certainly a case of personal preference though. My sop player at Egham swears by his Courtois; I can't play it because it seems to "close down" above high 'G', but then he doesn't like my Schilke, because he says it's too free-blowing.
I agree with Fitzy that the Schilke's are naturally bright (esp. the lightweight bells), but you can take the edge off them with the right mouthpiece compromise; I use a Schilke 12B4, which doesn't seem too bad, but I have to admit to occasionally "cheating" and using a deeper mouthpiece to play very quiet stuff ...
I've played on several different makes of sop. Getzen, Yamaha, Sterling, Schilke...... I've never tried a Sovereign though, I've heard a lot of bad things about them. At the moment I'm playing with Cambridge band and Soham Comrades. Cambridge have a fairly new Sterling sop. This replaced the Schilke they had previously, which rotted from the inside out and I put my finger through one of the slides. The Sterling is a really good instrument. The only note I find a problem with, is the low E, which tends to be flat. The top end is great (I got the top Eb in Coventry variations on the day and I've whacked out a top G at the end of one of the James Bond arrangements) Soham Band have a Schilke, it is probably my favourite of all the different sops I've played. The valves are great, the tuning is pretty good (for a sop.) I have noticed that, on the piece of pipe I put my finger through on Cambridges Schilke, there is now reinforcement. Maybe it was an ongoing problem?
As for range, the highest I've ever seen written was a high E, in an arrangement of 'Gonna fly now rocky' a la Maynard ferguson style. I was depping for a band when they played it and I missed it :x I'm usually comfortable up to top d's on a good day. I think sounds good if you put a phrase up the octave (in the right context of course)
I usually use a Bach 1C mouthpiece (or a 1 1/4C if my lip isn't in)
Ive just had a blow using a Shilke 10b4.. Its a bit shallower than the Yamaha 7d4d, but the hole (don't know the technical term!) is slightley wider and can put a little bit more air through it. Think I might change, quite impressed with it!
C how it goes.
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