Sibelius 5 help please!!

Discussion in 'Computer Corner' started by Masterblaster jnr, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Precisely my point.

    Whilever software companies can get away with producing sub-standard and half-finished products, they will.
  2. BrianT

    BrianT Member

    Putting words in my mouth...

    I didn't say that and I don't believe it.

    Decent Software Developers take just as much pride in what they produce as any other craftsman. But it's true that even rigourously designed and tested code can be released and subsequently found to contain mistakes and unplanned errors.

    The point I was making is that no one is forcing you to buy the update. And if you already fully expect it to be faulty why would you update? I don't understand.

    It is a sweeping generalisation to say that all software companies have this approach to testing. It may be true of some, but you simply cannot extrapolate up from one or two to get a rule that applies to all.
  3. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Funnily enough, I have always had a minimum of problems with Sibelius until the take over by Avid. Sib 4 has always worked absolutely fine. Sib 5.0 was a disaster from the get-go. That's why so many 'updates' were issued in such a comparatively short space of time. That was when I started feeling let down by Sibelius the company.
  4. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I don't recall saying ALL companies have this approach.

    I just remember saying it has become a depressingly common approach from many of our large software manufacturers.

    I had no problems at all with Sib 1, Sib 1.4 (didn't use 2) Sib 3 or Sib 4. It only started with Sib 5 - which makes me think that was when they started cutting corners.
  5. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    I suspect the American take-over was responsible. We all know how that goes. :roll:
  6. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Something not mentioned yet is Sibelius' big lean towards home-produced cine-music editing. There's been a big change in the market it's trying to attract and maybe Joe Blogg's PC is no longer a powerful enough tool to make full use of the program if music is the only end-goal?
  7. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Sorry to seem as if I'm harping on about this, but Avid also owns Pinnacle software, which also makes video editing and sequencing software (Pinnacle also owns Cubase --> Avid owns Cubase) so maybe there's a connection
  8. HaleStorm

    HaleStorm Member

    looking at it you do need a pretty hardcore machine for sib 5 to run efficently, it struggles a little on mine and i have a gaming freak PC
    Intel Quad core CPU running at 2.8GHz
    4GB RAM
    2 Nvidia 8800GTX gfx cards
    its just that cpu and ram intensive that it churns everything up.....and NEVER try to use photo score even a super computer would probably explode when you try using it....its rubbish....bring back sib 4! im glad i didnt havbe to pay for sib 5 or i would feel ripped off
  9. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Maybe Avid are trying to compete with Sound Forge (as they changed their sound editing program first to audio-visual) ??
  10. on_castors

    on_castors Member

    I would take it back then!... 98% of people have lower spec machines than that, and agreed it doesn't ever FLY, it never did - but it doesn't churn on my machine with a LOT lower spec than that. My only gripes are the poor sound performance compared to earlier versions, but I ran those on a discrete sound card, and only pump this out on a USB device now! The slower 5200rpm 2.5" Harddisk is the biggest bottleneck on my machine to it operating though, as is so often the case with laptops - bear in mind how big the sample files are, they are always going to be impacted by the speed of the HD and the size of the disk cache (eg. it is noticeable how much QUICKER they load the 2nd time when the reloading of samples takes place when you alter something then play it back)

    Actually haven't run it yet on my partner's Quadcore (still not quite as high a spec as you quote, 2.4Ghz with more basic 128Mb graphics & MUCH faster disk performance) so it might be interesting to give it a try!

    If you are running Vista 32 bit versions, they don't use all of 4Mb of RAM, only about 3 to 3.5Mb - you need the 64 bit versions to get the full memory into the equation.
    Have you tried turning OFF the swapfile - with loads of memory, it can be a bit counter-productive & you might get better performance without it, and it might stop the "churn" you are on about.
    RAM management software is something I would never be without either - it defrags the RAM and puts it back into the pool for re-use when needed, maybe this is why I get no memory problems with it.

    I find mine gets on well using a couple of Gb of "Readyboost" ram, and even before Vista, I used a program called eBoostr to get a similar benefit when on XP. Flash drives are so cheap now, it is handy to get a bit of smooth running this way.

    As for Photoscore, never had any "problems" at all with any version as far as running it goes - it is simply a PATHETIC waste of space in all versions! Smartscore is a little bit better (although picky!), but have had VERY good results using PDF2Music, (so some OCR for music software does work). Maybe it is just the various scanners I have used, as I find it hard to believe it would be still in production if it was ALWAYS as bad as I have found it to be!
  11. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member


    Yamaha own Steinberg = Cubase (bought off Pinnacle in 2005. about 12 months from the original acquisition).

    Avid own Digidesign = Protools (as well as owning Pinnacle)
  12. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    And since Protools works best with a dedicated PC it could partly explain why Sibelius now has more memory hogging tools to help the user.
  13. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Depends which version of ProTools you're talking about. HD is optimised towards recommended builds, but things like LE and M-Powered are designed to run on an 'average' system just like most other DAWs.

    IMO this is another case of a single program / developer trying to be all things to all people.

    Putting my cloth cap and rose tints on for a minute, in days gone by when you wanted to do MIDI editing you turned to something like Pro 24, which was a Steinberg product or Notator, which was an Emagic product. That was all they did. Sequenced MIDI data such that you could play it back and edit / quantise etc etc.

    As computers in general became more powerful and the technology became more available to do decent(ish) AD conversion, then audio recording was introduced into these programs and Cubase and Logic were born. In the fairly early days, the implentation of MIDI was much better than the audio engines.

    To combat that, someone went out and wrote some code that was pretty good at handling audio, but it's MIDI capabilities were (comparitively) rubbish or not even there in the early incarnations. That'll be ProTools. (OK, I've missed loads of other software out)

    Some of these programs had the capability of producing 'scores' which - to an extent - were laughable imitations of the real thing, and it was a bolted on extra.

    Sibelius was born on an Acorn RISC machine (IIRC) and was from the outset a scoring program. It was for putting dots and spider scrawl on a piece of paper. It wasn't designed as a sequencer or an audio recorder.

    Fast forward a few years, and everyone now has a bit of software that tries to do everything. Sequencing, sample playback, audio recording, editing and scorewriting.

    Regardless of what these program's individual capabilities are in each area the code has sprawled and as a result many have become unwieldy and inefficient in the same way that Windows has gone from being quite a nice 6 floppy disc version at 3.1 to a mind numbingly large and rather less than efficient travesty (IMO ) that is Vista.

    In the marketing guy's head, they're trying to appeal to as wide an audience as they can - the only thing is that people who do this seriously will use dedicated systems for each task.

    If I want an audio engine I'll use Samplitude or Sequoia. If I'm editing I'll use Wavelab / Samplitude / Sequoia / Sadie etc. If I want MIDI, I'll use Cubase or Logic.

    If I want a Score editor, I'll use Sibelius.


  14. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Sorry, I must have dozed off during that one :D

    Couldn't agree more - with everything!
  15. BrianT

    BrianT Member

    PhotoScore didn't work for the first time I tried it. But I persevered - and after setting it up to use the right resolution/stave size then it works very well indeed. I do wish the lite version supported tuplets, but I can't really complain.
  16. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    I have the full cream version of photoscore 5 and I have to say that it works for me extremely well - apart from the fact that it insists on using sib 5 rather than sib 4 to save scores to. Like Brian says, you have to set it up right first. It's great for reading pdfs as well.
  17. on_castors

    on_castors Member

    Hmm interesting as I have had good results with other software, yet 3 different scanners have failed to do much with any sheet I have put in!
  18. on_castors

    on_castors Member

    Incidentally, I have now tried it on Vista, on a quad core 2.4Ghz machine: 3Gb ram, 128Mb/plus shared memory discrete graphics card and a fast HD which has 16Mb cache, and it is great, ONCE the fix is installed (new .dll from the Sibelius web site) as it would not run at first!

    I really am puzzled as to why people are having problems, although in the meantime tweaking around with it, I have got rid of the slightly degraded playback with my USB sound, it was simply because the laptop's original sound card needed disabling first, although other software is fine without having to do this.

    Now... I want a new Quad core PC, it reminded me how slow mine is compared to something a little bit more 2008!
  19. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    There's a wee bit of help I actually need using Sibelius. A piece I'm working on at the moment requires me to write cadenza passages. To save me hunting around to find out how to pause notes and write notation outwith the value of them, what is the quick-fix to achieve this goal? (e.g. a pause of a semi-breve and writing cadenza through it).
  20. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Work out how many crotchets worth of notes there are, make a suitable time signature and hide it. Hide any incidental/accidental barlines and write it out. Rests in other parts will still be one full bar rest long. It's a bit more complicated if you want a chord playing through it, though! :eek: