Should non-British Bands get a free pass into the British Open

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by DublinBass, Apr 11, 2005.


Should non-British Bands be allowed to compete in the British Open

  1. Yes, by invitation (as is currently done)

    33 vote(s)
  2. Yes, but only after placing in another British Contest (or with a high enough world ranking)

    12 vote(s)
  3. Never!!

    20 vote(s)
  1. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    I was just wondering what you all thought about non-British Bands getting a free pass into the British Open?

    This trend has only been going for the past few years (results courtesy of 4BR results archive)

    2005 Brass Band of Central Florida (USA)
    2004 Dalewool Auckland (NZ) 10th
    2003 Illinois Brass (USA) 16th
    2000 Woolston Brass (NZ) 13th

    As you can see the best result is only about half-way up the table. The qualification for British Bands to make the British Open is now quite extensive (you have to place high in three contests).

    I'm mixed on the matter myself as I think it is great that overseas bands are competing in England (especially to compete against most of the best bands in the world), but part of me thinks, maybe they should compete in something smaller first to show they deserve a spot in the Open. Perhaps overseas bands ought to be competing in the Masters or at Pontins or Butlins. Maybe they should even compete at the Grand Shield first and if they finish in the top 3 or whatever then they can compete in the British Open once (more if they get a good enough result at the Open).

    Your thoughts?
  2. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    the last couple of years, they seem to make it a recurring thing to invite 1 foreign band for a one time appearance. As a foreigner myself ;) I think this is a great opportunity for these bands to showcase themselves. Of course, for bands from the US, Australia or New Zealand, travel costs are enormous, so asking them to "prove themselves" first at the Grand Shield, would be a little bit too much to ask I feel.
    For bqnds from the European continent, there is already an event where they can prove themselves: the European Championships. I think that in the last couple of years, bands like Willebroek, Stavanger and Eikanger-Bjorsvik (especially those three) have proved themselves more then able to compete against the top UK bands. So maybe one of them will get an invite next year?
    I know that Willebroek considered a few times to take part in the senior trophy/senior cup/grand shield. But the costs of an additional yearly contest abroad would have been too high at that time.
  3. postie

    postie Member

    I think it is a very good idea to invite overseas bands to the open. I wonder whether people think it should continue though now that the masters has now gone international.
  4. SuperHorn

    SuperHorn Member

    I'm agree with BBCBari on this. Bands are fighting for places with such a high volume of bands now trying to get into the Spring festival to hopefully qualify for the big prize = The Open. Why should Non-British bands have invitations throughout qualifying at a British Contest ?

    Also having a Non-British band compete may not help other competing bands trying to remain in the Open.

    eg If a different Non-British band competes each year and comes 14th and 15th over two years this hinders bands below them, as it adds an additional one point to those British bands total score over two years. Accumaltive scores for different Non-British bands over two years don't matter as relegation will not happen to Non - British Bands.

    Hope this makes sense????
  5. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    If there is 1 non-british participant each year, I don't think it will have an influence on the accumulative scores? Or does it? Of course the easiest solution for this would be to just ignore the foreign band when calculating the accumulative scores...
  6. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    I think the only way it could is if for instance the bottom bands came in as followed

    Band A 14-17
    Band B 17-14
    band C 16-18
    Band D 15 -16
    non British band 18-15

    1 band would have 34 pts
    3 bands would be tied at 31 and possibly all go down? where the only reason Band A and Band D wouldn't have had 30 pts and stay up is because of the non-British Band

    However, Jan's solution is quite easy and would remedy that issue.
  7. lewis

    lewis Member

    Before you get into decimals again Pat ;), I know you're going to like me very much for this but, it's the BRITISH open. Therefore my answer is no. Look at the problems the Masters has had, and now we've lost a contest that was a major part of banding. It would be terrible if such politics were to effect the open as well.

    I agree it's great for the American bands to be able to compete against our best but there is now a competition in the International Masters where one US band could be invited.
  8. Chris Sanders

    Chris Sanders Active Member

    Masters thread all over again... British Contest for British Bands...
  9. lewis

    lewis Member

  10. Chris Sanders

    Chris Sanders Active Member

    If they let Foreign bands contest... Then next they might start letting women in bands... Then uniforms will slowly turn Pink, and concerts will be filled up with the Carpenters, ABBA and Boyzone Medleys!?! :rolleyes:
  11. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    Well, IMHO, there is a big differnce between, on one hand, inviting 1 foreign band each year, on top of the bands that qualify the regular way, and on the other hand, inviting 10 foreign bands and throwing out 10 other bands that have been attending and supporting the contest for years.
  12. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Are you saying that you've not already played "We've Only Just Begun" "Abba Selection" and "No Matter What" at least once each? ;)
  13. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    As a regular attender at the Open, I see no problem in inviting an overseas band, even on an annual basis. If I recall, the initial invitation came when one of the planned bands was unable to take part (but remember there is a long-standing precedent, set when the NZ National band took part a while back).

    For me, the visiting bands provide something a little different, regardless of how well they do in the rankings, and it must be a tremendous experience for some of them to compete there, even if they are up against opposition that is ranked considerably higher than they are.

    As for the suggestion of competing in another UK competition, that may be possible for a fairly local European band, but I wouldn't see it as practical for a band travelling from another continent - the logistics for a one-off visit are bad enough, never mind trying to arrange another trip, presumably fairly close in time. I think both expense and the difficulty in players getting time off work would effectively make it impossible.
  14. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    What does the Open bit mean though if not anybody can be in it?
  15. Cornishwomble

    Cornishwomble Active Member

    I must admit I thought that the British Open meant that it was held in Britain but was Open to all.

    The Scottish Open has non-Scottish bands would this mean that they would not allow Welsh or English bands to compete in their "Open"
  16. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    I think the Open was supposed to be " Open to the top bands in the British Commonwealth" ( which has included Woolston , Skellurup and Newcastle Steelworks ( Aus ). every couple of years invites have been given to Non Commonwealth bands . I don't know if you want to enter on a regular basis do what uk bands have to and get in the qualifying loop ( Senior cup and Grand Shield ) , do it the hard way like we all have too am sure bands who come 3rd in the Grand Shield would not be too happy at an extra place going to another band.
  17. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    The British Open Contest should mean The British Open Contest.:clap:

    There are enough British Bands FAR BETTER WHO MISS out of the open:clap: and you get a overseas band there instead
    Not mentionioning any particular band but the one year i reckon a certain 1st Section National Champion Winning Band would have played the piece FAR BETTER:clap: :clap: than the overseas band who were at the British Open, they were completley outclassed by the rest of the bands:mad: :rolleyes:
  18. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    If a foreign band wants to enter the British Open on a regular basis, I totally agree, they should take part in the whole qualification proces, like the other British bands have to. But because of the travelling costs, it will always be much more expensive,and therefore also much harder, for foreign bands to go through this proces.
    So that's why I'm in favour of, every once in a while, giving an invitation to a foreign band to take part in the British Open 1 time, when this band has already proven itself many times over a longer period in National, European or other international contests.
  19. You saying bands like Dalewool or Woolston are outclassed by alot of the bands who don't make the cut for the Open?? - Middle of the road isn't a bad result and given the fatigue of touring and long haul flights I think they proved themselves worthy of the competition. I think Brissie XLCR would stand a good chance at getting up in the top 6 at the moment...

    Interesting comments on the Scottish Open - this contest is open to bands from england and wales yeah? - I think the history of the term 'Open' in relation to competition of any sort (most notably golf) says that the competition has no geographical boundaries for entrants, but rather is open (subject to qualification or invitation) to anyone and the name before the term is simply that of the host nation/city/whatever-you-wish
  20. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    I think you should get clairfication of the Rules from Martin Mortimer of what the Qualifying criteria are. to be honest over the years it has been quite difficult to work out what bands qualified from the grand shield to the open. I think the fairest way if you want to enter is get in the loop , if your band is good enough you should be able to play in the open within 3 years of entering the senior shield.

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