Short Scores

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by BbBill, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. BbBill

    BbBill Supporting Member

    A wee question!

    Is a short score written in concert pitch?
    Thus a piano could play it for an accompinent to a solo? (or is that the whole point of a short score?!! :oops: )

    The reason I ask is that the tuba solo, Basso Continuo has only got a short score and has no piano part available to buy, and was wondering if the piano person could just use that? Some parts of the piece would be abit tricky, but I would work something out if it was possible!

    Seem to remember a piece in band that we were querying wrong notes a while ago, but the short score didnt correspont and remember wondering, is it in concert pitch...?!

    Hope Im not being too thick in my quick fix idea.....!
  2. SteveT

    SteveT Member

    Short scores for brass band are almost always Bb pitch. However, there are exceptions to the rule. So, it might be easier to adjust the solo part.

    As far as the pianist is concerned, the scores are not very suitable and not very pianistic normally.

    Simply create a piano score by editing the short score..... your nearest music student should be able to do that!

  3. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    But........... do have a review of the copyright fact sheet (when it's available again) as to do such an arrangement, or to have one prepared without permission is illegal.
  4. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Unless the composer has died before 1930 (as a rule of thumb!)
  5. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    And the arranger - which is more likely to be the one that would prevent you from doing this with brass band music ;)

    Also not sure where you would stand legally if your pianist was to use a short score and transpose at sight. I'm not convinced that this wouldn't infringe copyright too as it is creating a new arrangement of the music, even if it isn't written down :confused: . Although as there would be no lasting proof that this was ever done (after the performance was over who's to say that the short score was "rearranged" by the pianist?) I think you would probably be safe enough!

    Perhaps some legal eagle on here could advise?

  6. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    Really is that the case about transposition?! That is shocking if it is true, i have done that many times on piano, find it incredible that that could be breaking a copyright rule!!
  7. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    It's a technicality, but the answer is that it probably is illegal - you're reproducing the Copyright Owner's material in an altered form without their permission.

    I'm not aware that there's a written exclusion in the Copyright Act for transposition, although I may be wrong- but as I said it's probably just a technicality.
  8. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    So my old staff were wrong to make me score-read on the piano as part of my course?
  9. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Probably. Silly, I know.
  10. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    So then if you are playing a normal piano solo, and you add the odd note here or there, then that is also illegal?
  11. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Again, the answer to that is probably that it is technically an infringement of copyright - it's a good job that these things are practically unenforcable really.

    Same sort of thing as more than two people singing Happy Birthday in an unlicenced pub :eek:. Silly.
  12. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    Apologise for the pedanticism, am sure you hve better things to do lol, but what about if you play a wrong note in a piece, is that infringement?
  13. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member


    Don't know, I never played one ;)
  14. BbBill

    BbBill Supporting Member

    With rules like this to try and adhere to, its a wonder anybody actually plays music, its getting to the stage where these copyright rules are far more important than the music that they are enforcing, so to speak. If you followed them to the core, it would be enough to put anybody off playing, I was only going to use this piece in our own band solo contest if it was possible, heck dont think I'll bother now, with the threat of the copyright polis breathing down my neck!!!!!!

    In that piece that Im speaking about with the short score (basso continuo), Ive a recording with Steve Sykes playing it with Enfield Band. With the score here in front of me, I know he is doing a bit thats totally not written there, so theres your concrete evidence with the cd, what do you do about that, sue him?! Come on, I think its time to lighten up abit and get a life without worrying on which law your going to break next! (Oops, maybe I should get back into speaking in my most law-abiding-citizen voice, not that im one of these all the time, I suppose!!!!!)

    Anyway I didnt start the thread to talk about copyright, back to the topic! After studying and listening to the CD a few times, I think this piece might be written in concert pitch as some of the bass parts sound and correspond to whats in the score, will need to find the band parts to make sure, but my question in the 1st place was mearly a general question about short scores.

    Why is there a need for short score anyway? Surely its more work that, than making a convential score and IMO basically harder to read when youre trying to conduct and pick out parts? (not that Im much of a conductor anyhow!)
  15. jingleram

    jingleram Active Member

    Hey i don't think either of us were getting at you there, i was just asking questions, and Keith was answering to the best of his ability! I agree with you, as i'm sure Keith does, go ahead, use the piece, one-in-a-million that the law would be enforced in your case anyway!
    P.s. if i have interpreted you wrong, accept my apologies!
  16. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Well, that isn't likely, but with tMP getting a higher and higher profile, Brass Bands will no doubt have greater scrutiny than before.

    No. Performance is different from arranging. Take Pat's version of Bass in the Ballroom at the tMP gig in Hadleigh. His Cadenza was longer the rest of the piece - but I don't believe that any sanction would be enforceable, even if it were applicable.

    G'wan, say it. You know you wanna to......... TOPIC! G'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan, g'wan!

    Well, if you know what the pitch is, mentally depict the first few bars of the bass line. You should be able to work out the key easily enough, and that should answer your question - I'm assuming as an illustrious fellow Bb bass player you know which key the Bass part is in.

    It's progress, mate.

    The short scores were a marked improvement on the solo cornet/conductor parts of old. Can you imagine conducting (say) Life Divine without a full score?

    We, in the days where most composers/publishers use Sibelius, are lucky in that creating a full score isn't a chore on top of the composition and type setting, it's routine.
  17. BbBill

    BbBill Supporting Member

    edit: this is meant to be the next post below but forgot to quote!!!
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2005
  18. BbBill

    BbBill Supporting Member

    Nah dont worry about it, I wasnt getting at you, (sorry if it seemed that way!) it was really just a general rant at the minefield of copyright rules!!!

    Im going to use it, its a nice wee solo that wouldnt get played otherwise, and well Ive been known to break a few rules and laws in my lifetime, why stop now!!!!!
  19. BbBill

    BbBill Supporting Member

    What Im meaning to do is play it on my EEb, not on the BBb as I normally play that in the band. Its written for the EEb bass, and at some places in the piece, the bass line in the score copies some parts in the solo line exactly, so they are the same if you read the solo line in bass clef, im thinking it should be alright!!! Hope that makes sense!
  20. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Yes, and Yes!