Scottish Open Results

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by dhanimiller, Nov 20, 2010.

  1. dhanimiller

    dhanimiller Member

    Surely having Simon Dobson in the box means that the final results should be what he says they are?

    Placings: Hannes Buchegger/Howard Snell/ Simon Dobson.

    1. Co-operative Funeralcare (Michael Fowles) - 1/1/2 = 4
    2. Kirkintilloch (Allan Ramsay) - 2/2/4 = 8
    3. Pemberton Old Wigan DW (Mark Bentham) - 4/6/1 = 11
    4. Kingdom Brass (Andrew Duncan) - 6/4/5 = 15
    5. Wire Brass (Paul Andrews) - 11/3/3 = 17
    6. Woodfalls (Gareth Pritchard) - 5/8/6 = 19
    7. Felling (Stephen Malcolm) - 7/7/9 = 23
    8. Yorkshire Imperial Urquhart Travel (David Nesbitt) - 3/10/10 = 23
    9. Co-operative Milnrow (David Evans) - 9/5/12 = 26
    10. Fishburn (John Ward) - 8/9/11 = 28
    11. Dalmellington (Allan Morrison) - 10/11/8 = 29
    12. Unison Kinneil (Paul Drury) - 12/15/7 = 34
    13. Bon Accord Silver (John Maines) - 14/14/13 = 41
    14. Newtongrange (Nigel Boddice MBE) - 15/12/14 = 41
    15. Kirkbymoorside Brass (John Woodward) - 13/13/15 = 41

    In event of a tie the placing of Simon Dobson takes precedent."

    So, he has the power to decide who's better when there's a tie, but if the composer himself thinks Pemberton played his piece with the most conviction surely that is a sign of a winner? Also, look at Kinneil, they were given a 7 by the composer but ended up 12th... I am aware of the adjudication system, but the best scenario to use this system is with 3 independent sources surely? As opposed to having the creator of the piece at hand there
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2010
  2. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I don't understand ... the composer surely is entitled to an opinion as well? :dunno
  3. dhanimiller

    dhanimiller Member

    Of course, my point is that the winner should be purely his opinion, technically, as it's his own piece of music?

    Otherwise the 3 scoring system isn't an accurate outcome, surely....
  4. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I think I know what you're meaning, but if the results require no tied places, the panel usually has a deciding judge. Even Strictly Come Dancing had this format until this year!
  5. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    As devil's advocate, one could argue that he has a specific interpretation he is looking for which would bias his opinion over a fantastically musical effort from a band that was unable to read his mind.

    Although, I am glad they at least decided to use him as the tie-breaker.
  6. goldensound

    goldensound New Member

    i heard every performance and it was definately a case of 'men against boys'. the co-op won by a mile and you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who heard them disagree, so lets have less whining and more appreciation of a truly masterful performance.
  7. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Personal credits go out to both Fishburn and Milnrow. I enjoyed both performances on the day. Can't dispute the top result though ... the Co-op shone!
  8. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Why? In my personal experience, a composer is more likely to overlook the odd slip of intonation or ensemble in a performance that he feels captures the spirit of the music. The other two are there to pick up those slips that the composer forgives.

    It might be the composer's favourite performance, but that doesn't neccesarily make it technically the best. And let's not kid ourselves that band contests are about the music, after all. :rolleyes:
  9. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    It was a great performance. I would be interested to know how many heard?
  10. smaca

    smaca Active Member

    I listened to all 27 bands yesterday(12 in The Shield, 15 in The Open)

    I also thought Co-op were superb, and out on their own with their was fantastic playing. I also enjoyed Kirkintilloch, Kingdom and Pemberton(honestly I had the first 4).Others who impressed were Wire, Woodfalls and Milnrow.
  11. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    erm, I was chatting to you when Imps and Newtongrange played ... :redface:
  12. bandcampgal

    bandcampgal Member

    Although we were happy to be placed 1st by the composer, I think that if the results were to be based purely on 1 persons opinion (even if he is the composer), then surely the other 2 adjudicators were unnecessary?! I must agree that even if he found our interpretation to be the closest to what he had in his mind as to how it should sound, this won't neccesarily be the cleanest performance of the day.

    I didn't hear any bands (except my own obviously!) so wouldn't wish to comment on any performances! The difference in the 3 adjudicators placing was very interesting tho!
  13. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Out of interest, since I didn't pay £10 for a score, does the bagpipe section specify drumsticks that pipe bands use? Co-op were the only band that made use of this feature ... and very effective too!
  14. Bass Man

    Bass Man Active Member

    Sorry to play devils advocate, but Simon Dobson disagreed and I believe that this is part of the crux of this discussion
  15. fartycat

    fartycat Member

    No, it didn't specify any sticks. And the score also didn't call for a marching snare either but that was also effective.

    I'm chuffed that Mr Dobson wrote 'animal percussion' on our remarks :)
  16. fartycat

    fartycat Member

    Have to say what an ace contest the Scottish Open is. A brilliant hall and really friendly and helpful organisers who had the foresight to commission what is an excellent piece of music from an up and coming composer.

    My only gripe would be the quality of percussion on stage. The vibes weren't working (couldn't get the motor on) when we played despite lots of helpers trying their hardest. And the timps weren't great either - both sets on stage had the Ludwig style pedals which meant that unless you then spent a good ten minutes resetting them up, you couldn't get some of the slack skin effects that Dobson asked for in the score. And the set I used also needed servicing.
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2010
  17. jezza23361

    jezza23361 Member

    What and ignore the opinion of two absolutely top musicians in Howard Snell and Hannes Buchegger - I don't think so.

    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 22, 2010
  18. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    Not you silly! Thanks for the PM.:D
  19. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

    I agree that this is an excellently well run contest. Thank you for the kind comments about Milnrows performance. However, it would seem Mr Dobson prefered much faster tempi than he had marked on the score. Thats his perogative i suppose.
    We had a fantastic weekend and enjoyed this 1st outing with our new M.D Dave Evans. Bring on the area!
  20. JR

    JR Member

    3 judges

    I wasnt there but I'm still intrigued by the adjudication system. The result didnt throw up any Cambridge 1998 style controversy but unless I am mistaken (distinctly possible) there was no mechanism in place to fully prevent it.

    That is - Co Op would not have won if 2 judges placed them first and the other (lets say the composer) had them 13th...

    Or have I mis-interpreted the whole thing?

    John R

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