Scottish Open '10- Open Adjudication!

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by sopsarah, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. sopsarah

    sopsarah New Member

    So I'm scrolling through news on 4BR and I come across the bombshell that there has to be open adjudication at the Open this year.

    What are people's thoughts?

    Personally I don't like it as it's human nature to be biased (whether you try your hardest not to be or not) and I feel it will make me a lot more nervous as I know they can see me.
  2. jockinafrock

    jockinafrock Active Member

    Fantastic news - well done for taking this step. They can but try! :clap:
  3. Frontman

    Frontman Member

    I agree with Jockinafrock. Congratulations to the SBBA for this giant step in the Scottish Open Championship. With regards to bias, please give Adjudicators the respect they deserve, after all most adjudicator have a great deal of musical experience, and that is what is required here.

    Like sopsarah said, nerves will be with the players 'being seen', which this will also includes the use of mutes, dusters over bell, rewriting of parts. These so called 'cheats' that have been discussed fully on this forum, however the SBBA have taken the discussion of 'open' or 'closed' adjudication to a new level.

    I really do hope this works. WELL DONE.
  4. Darth_Tuba

    Darth_Tuba Active Member

    How do you determine what "works" with respect to a subjective adjudication, open, closed or otherwise? I suspect the usual whinges post-contest will happen regardless! :) I also see they will be separate, with the combined placings making the result... this often caused more debate when they tried it at the Masters!
  5. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    I think it's a good idea, but the fact that its open plus the combined places obviously means that post-results there will be the usual suspects putting 2+2 together, getting 7 and trying to work out which adjudicators "favored" which bands by mathematically tying any anomaly among the 3 to try and and scrape some dubious link of bias between adjudicator and band.
    Maybe just going with an open system to start with would have been a safer bet.
    The banding public in the UK are far too politically correct and skeptical to take too much change at once, that is why these "innovative" ideas work much better abroad, because they don't pick apart the whole system looking for things that aren't there.
  6. sopsarah

    sopsarah New Member

    This is the only reason I can see for open adjudication. But even that leads us back to the whole 'cheating' debate.
  7. Ali

    Ali Member

    I disagree. Surley the reason is so that the adjudicators get a "true" sound of the bands rather than a muffeld effect that would happen when sat in an enclosed space?

    I think its a great idea and would be happy to see this tried else where. The SBBA need aplauding for this move. For far too long, this beloved movement of ours has staled. We need to move forward and open adjudication is one way of doing so.

    We also need to give more credit to the men/ women in the box. Yes, there may be occasional bias (and we would all have to live with it) but in the main, they are there to gve their honest opinions about our performances. If you dont like it, then dont do it! Once the old guard have gone, the arguments should surely stop. Why on earth would the likes of Simone Ribello, Peter Roberts, Philip Harper, Alan Morrison etc hold any kind of bias towards bands? They dont! And unlike the old guard, they will be adjudicating performances, teqnique and interpritatrion in the 21st centuary and not the 18th!!!!
  8. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    Can I suggest that most adjudicators won't be able to tell the little known bands apart anyway? Only the big boys should be remotely concerned about being "recognised". Am sure most adjudicators don't really give a toss whether it's Black Dyke or Buckhaven sat in front of them though.
  9. Ali

    Ali Member

    Agreed! Was going to say that myself but didn't want to get shot down:). Anyway the adjudicators role is to comment on the performance and not police everyone regarding cheating!
    maybe there should be a third party whose sole job is to mark bands in the usage of mutes etc when not written. They could then bring it to the attention of the judges at the end of a contest. It's then up to the adjudicators to decide if a band should be penalised or not?
  10. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    All credit to the SBBA for at least trying something a bit different. Too much in banding is done "Because that's the way we've always done it."

    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got.
  11. SMead

    SMead Member

    I wrote to Peter Fraser of SABBA yesterday, as soon as I heard the news. I congratulate SABBA for taking the initiative and I hope others will follow. It's a bold brave step, and it's heartening to see that we don't just have to go on blindly following the 'old ways'.
  12. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    Its not really a new concept is it though? The old mineworkers contest in Blackpool was always open adjudication in all sections and was a big contest. Seemed that when it stopped so did the open adjudication. :dunno
  13. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I can't remember anybody complaining about the results either ... mind you ... one iconic band rarely had competition on the day!
  14. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    We played right next to them once and we were like a tea break band..... hall emptied. But you're right nobody ever complained about the results there as far as I can remember?
  15. missflugel

    missflugel Member

    When I told our band on Thursday about the changes for this year it added a new element of excitement to the whole event. I think it's interesting and as always in Scotland, trying something new. We can't wait for it

    Jo x
  16. bbg

    bbg Member

    A sensible post as ever, Di.........mind you, this must be the first time that Dyke and Buckhind have been mentioned in the same sentence for many a year!

    Full marks to SBBA for sticking their collective heads above the parapet and running with this one. At Youth Band level the adjudication at Perth has been "open" for the past couple of years and it has been commented on how the folks , released from their tented existence, have actually enjoyed the experience of watching bands perform. OK, a big difference in kudos (and prize money) between Youth and Scottish Open contests, but maybe, just maybe, the visual element of a band's performance may have a bearing on marking rather than the technical, are-all-the-notes-in-the-right-place-at-the-right-tempo method encountered so often?
  17. Lauradoll

    Lauradoll Active Member

    Can't believe the contest has been moved to the same weekend as BiC though!!
  18. euphantastic

    euphantastic New Member

    You mean BiC won't now move their contest to suit us Scots ;) ?
  19. smaca

    smaca Active Member

    I also applaud Peter Fraser and SBBA on driving a lot of initiatives at the moment, and if open adjudication works and improves banding, then it is the right thing to do.

    I honestly don't agree with open adjudication, and there are many reasons.We are told by some of the best performing soloists in the world(not just in brass) that concentration is one of the key elements;to focus on each note, dynamics, shut the audience out mentally etc etc...........well, I think the same must apply to ensuring performers get the best adjudication. Adjudicators are only human, so its only natural that the brain will be distracted from listening if anything catches the eye(a movement, a player under strain,etc etc).

    If the objective of open adjudication is to catch bands using different mutes, best players writing in and playing parts for ohers, and bands will be dedcuted points for doing this, then fair enough.Even conductors could be adjudicated on their involvement,style etc during performance.I just feel this all detratcs from the "listening to every note aspect" of adjudication.

    Becasue things in life are always done the same(eg "the old way"),it does not mean it is the wrong thing to do.Tried and tested methods in playing have been maintained forever, so why not in adjudication?
  20. basebonetone

    basebonetone Member

    Spare a thought for us-doing the gala contest then driving straight down to do BIC that will be a busy weekend!

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