Rienzi - Wagner arr. Howard Lorriman

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Dave Payn, Sep 22, 2004.

  1. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    So. Who's heard/played this? Anyone who's played this know the Haydn Johns arrangement? Are the two significantly different? Just curious! ;-)
  2. JR

    JR Member

    I think in the old arrangement the inverted turns are written as demisemiquavers. Can't remember a timp roll at the end of the old one either (could be wrong) but when that version was used at the area (1963) percussion was absent of course.
    Also I think the first note was distinctly marked "non vib" - a direction that caused some controversy at the time (so my dad tells me!) see "Volcano" 1979 for more up to date difficulties...

    john r
  3. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Of course the 'non vib' marking could have been an instruction not to play any cues on the vibraphone....... ;-)
  4. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    ;) .... a certain Peter Roberts plays on the 'only' recording of the Haydn Johns arrangement (Grimey, 1970).

    ... oops! just discovered that Hanwell released a 10" LP ('Bold As Brass') in 1963 of the overture as well. Anyone ever remember that recording? Cornet soloist on album was David Allison.
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2004
  5. JF2

    JF2 New Member


    Hi !

    I've played it several times in the 02/03 season, the whole opera with symphony orchestra. As one cannot not conclude from this to the arrangement (which I don't know, though) I only can say that it was not too difficult but EXTREMELY loud ! But fun to play anyway ...
  6. brass journo

    brass journo Member

    don't be expecting great things like this come the area!!!! Just appreciate the piece actually starting!!
  7. Rambo Chick

    Rambo Chick Member

    i would like to say that i am utterly disappointed with the choice of the area testpiece for the championship section, 'Rienzi' . i might write more in due course about why but for the moment i am dismayed and not looking forward to working on it-it bores me to tears!!!:ranting2:
  8. jo

    jo Member

    had a quick look through the percussion parts for this last week and (as i think has been mentioned somewhere else) in order to play it all as written (including the optional glock- which lets face it isnt really optional at this level!) we will need 6 percussionists...all of whom have about 30 notes each but unfortunatley all at the same time so not many chances for one person to cover multiple parts.
    So, are we resorting to putting concert bass drum and crash cymbals onto a drum kit with one of the 2 snare drum players, dropping one of the snares and/or optional glock, going for the old one man band set up with cymbals between knees and bd triggered by stamping or are we all going to be allowed 6 registered percussionists on stage (having managed to find enough to go around!)?

    anyone else had a look yet?
  9. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    .... using clash cymbals, 5 percussionists are needed (incl. timps) to give a faithful reading. Although it has been covered elsewhere, why was the glock. part put in? Not very Wagnerian, and is the orig. flute part covered elsewhere? Can you tell me if the Lorriman perc. parts have a roll sustained throughout the final bars (... not in original orchestral score)??
  10. peatair

    peatair Member

    Number of Percussionists - Too many for most

    I don't know Lorriman's arrangment / transcription of Rienzi but the point made about the piece needing several percussionists got me going.

    A lot of these Test Pieces nowadays are needing more and more percussionists as the arrangers try to put in more and more variety in the type of sound etc. Even test pieces down at 2nd Section are very difficult to play without 2 or sometimes 3 percussionists.

    Don't the test piece selectors realise that most bands are lucky to have just a KIT PLAYER?
  11. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    I dissagree. Percussion certainly enhances the band! And most bands tend to have mroe and more percussionists. It's a bit like saying, oh! Bass players are short in demand, lets choose testpieces without Bass parts .... :shock:
  12. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    HBB - you don't need basses for the Lorriman arrangement - you just need a big set of bellows.

    Nothing particularly technically demanding in the bass parts but LOUD

    I have to say that, unfortunately, from what I have heard so far comparisons with the wonderful portrayal of the modern band repertoire in "Brassed Off" are not too far fetched.
  13. ScrapingtheBottom

    ScrapingtheBottom Active Member

    I'd have to agree! Rienzi is a superb piece of music as is the William Tell overture both written by two of my favourite composers, however they are a just a big blow for a top section band. I think we will hear a lot of good performances at the regionals and the adjudictors are going to have to earn their money.
  14. brass journo

    brass journo Member

    Rienzi warning

    Just a word of advice to any bands buying Rienzi.

    Make sure you check your music before you stamp it! In many sets two of the solo cornets are missing the last page of the piece! Whilst it makes for a nice rest for us cornet players, it's not going to do your chances at the Area much good!

    Just remember to check your parts (so to speak!!!) ;)
  15. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    Or alternatively (and perhaps somewhat cynically) you could view the opposite approach like saying "Lets give 'em this piece and they'll have to buy in a second soprano player to have a chance of winning......" ;)
  16. bassinthebathroom

    bassinthebathroom Active Member

    WHAT?!?!? Another testpiece with mistakes/omissions!?!?...... I fail to believe this! :p
  17. Mark Bousie

    Mark Bousie Member

    I have to say, in my own opinion (not my band's) this is a disappointing choice. Nothing against the piece, it is a great overture and an excellent colourful and powerful arrangement from Howard Lorriman (who, up until now, has been quite underrated as an arranger), but we have so much superb original music that is sat on the shelves getting dusty!

    I also think it may give the judges a few more problems than usual due to the lack of solo work, but the bands with quality sounds should still rise to the top (but there's quite a few of them in certain areas!).

    We shall see...
  18. ronnie_the_lizard

    ronnie_the_lizard Active Member

    Not just quality (& balanced) sounds - there are a lot of sections calling for very tight, clean, loud ensemble semiquavers - it is a good test of ensemble playing just not a lot you can do with it in terms of musical interpretation - even tempos are strictly marked - Allegro energico = 84bpm for most of it with a "poco piu vivace" clearly marked to be played at 88 - not much room for "artistic license", though I guess there will be a good few conductiors who try to take it a bit faster to get a bit of 'excitement' - and we all know where that leads........ give 'em some Beta Blockers Pleeeeeeease.......

    Overall - like William Tell - an excellent concert finisher, but a bit of a retrograde step for an area test? I guess it might at least choose for the best overall band, and not for the one with the most expensive corner-men (or the most soprano players ;-) ).
  19. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    ... I assume then that the final Molto piu stretto is marked minim=160 then? And by any weird coincidence is the introduction and theme (Molto sostenuto e maestoso) minim=66? Just curious.

    TIMBONE Active Member

    I have to make a point regarding percussion. I think it is very impractical to write percussion parts for more than two players, (composition competitions ask for no more than two percussion parts). As far as an orchestral transcription/arrangment goes, adapting to two percussionists is no different than adapting to no violins or piccolos etc. In my own music, both compositions and arrangments, I always provide two parts which cover everything. If I were to use an instrument which may not be available, I either instruct it to be played on another instrument, (eg Welsh harp to glock in Enchanted Wales), or if this wouldn't work, make sure that the part can be missing without being detrimental.

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