Results Nationals 2010

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by tkhbss, Oct 11, 2010.

  1. tkhbss

    tkhbss Member

    Congratulations to Brighouse, Cory and Fairey in particular as being the three bands who gave exceptional performances according to the comments I have seen. Wasn't there, but 4Barsrest said they thought Dyke played well, but they didn't show in the top 6 - any ideas why anyone (other than that is what the adjudicators thought)?
  2. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    It does seem strange that for a movement so utterly caught up in contesting there's been no comment as far as I can see about the result of one of the biggest contests going or the merits of the various bands. All I can find is a thread about the antics of one particular participant on the day.

    Was everyone left feeling numb?
  3. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Well, here goes.....

    There was some spectacularly good playing on Saturday. No-one got through the "easy" piece unscathed, even though some MDs tried to ameliorate the works challenges by rescoring it. (some examples of which left me open-mouthed!!).

    Cory were sensational, Briggus very, very good indeed and Dyke very, very good indeed (didn't hear Fairey's I'm afraid.) Rothwell, Leyland and GUS played very well too. For me, Cory edged it (just) because the piece really came to life when they played it; lots of detail in the fast bits and a wonderful flow in the slow bits. But the judges said there was not much to choose between the top three. And I was listening quite high up in the hall, so the judges probably heard different performances anyway!

    Not sure why Dyke didn't feature higher. From where I sat they didn't quite have the detail of Cory and Briggus in the loud sections but we are talking very small percentages indeed here!

    Paid £25 for a ticket and felt as though I had bought a ticket to watch a 10K race where lots the runners took short cuts. I have such admiration for the quality of the top bands, I would LOVE to see them play the piece as the composer wrote it. They have the best players, so, why not? I have an interest in this as a composer, of course, but also as a punter in ths case.
  4. GJG

    GJG Active Member

    'Twould be nice to be able to believe that they were penalised for the substitutions ...

    Don't suppose we'll ever know.
  5. _si

    _si Member

    This is why all contests should be open adjudication... let the adjudicator see the performance as a whole and dont allow him/her to be hoodwinked at the bands leisure.
    Lets face it, chances are the adjudicators MUST know by the lead players tones etc who they are (ie even I can recognise David Thorntons playing) and so therefore the bands identity is not a secret anyhow!
    Let the adjudicators use their eyes as well as their ears and let bands who dont play the score as written be judged by the adjudicator for doing so! (my opinion only)
  6. marc71178

    marc71178 Member

    Which is all well and good, but how do you propose adjudicators follow the score AND watch the people on stage whilst all the time having to concentrate on listening to the music AND make notes on it?
  7. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    As other people have said, have another official in the open just looking for "infringements".
    Did anyone go to the open rehearsals? Did the bands in question rehearse the swapping of parts there?
  8. BrassFlyer

    BrassFlyer Member

    Does anyone know the actual results I cant find them anywhere:-?
  9. _si

    _si Member

    With Open adjudication, the bands wouldnt know whether or not they were being watched and so they either choose to run the risk of swopping parts etc or not...i would hazzard a guess that bands wouldnt want to take the chance!
  10. SMead

    SMead Member

    I think the silence regarding this result is the collective sound of 4500 people suddenly realising they know nothing about brass bands.... How foolish we all feel that after listening all day to bands struggling with the test piece, we hear with Black Dyke (and Brighouse and Cory earlier) a truly outstanding peformance that had detail, class emanating from every page of the score, contrasts, accuracy, a fine sense of structure and musical shape with every phrase, with a sound as good as you are likely to hear this decade, only to be subsequently told it was the 8th best on the day. We all hold our collective heads in embarrassment at our foolishness.
    The future though is potentially brighter, if we dare to contemplate open adjudication, separate marking from judges, marking to a universally agreed and accepted criteria, using the brightest musical talents to carry out this very important task of dishing out our brand of musical justice to all competing bands and fee paying punters.
  11. Super Ph

    Super Ph Member

    you don't need to follow the score - you can see your favourite band coming on stage.
  12. iancwilx

    iancwilx Active Member

    I played a lower section piece at Butlins a few years ago where the back row had the main melody for quite a few bars.
    The winning band totally transferred this section of the piece to the front row.
    I was sat in the front row when they played and was amazed at this blatant jaw dropping subterfuge.

    They won 1st Prize and we came second.
    (Our back row played well)

    I know that these things go on in banding, and I took it on the chin, but I think open adjudication would go some way to stamping out such blatant tricks.

    BTW, these are strictly my own personal comments, and, having retired from playing quite some time ago, I do NOT speak for any band whatsoever.

    - Mr Wilx

    - Mr Wilx
  13. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    I enjoyed the day on Saturday, hearing 17 of the 20 performances. We didn't stay for the results as we had family over for the weekend, but were very surprised not to see Dyke in the top 3. My personal feeling is that the adjudicators may have felt they took the opening a little fast, losing out on the clarity they were looking for. This was one of the concerns Martin Ellerby had highlighted in his talk at Regent Hall , which he illustrated with three different recorded versions.

    No quibbles over the rest of the placings, though. Jonathan had Brighouse first whilst I thought Cory had done enough to hang on. I was particularly pleased to see GUS in the frame: I thought they handled the solo passages as well as anyone, and it showed you don't necessarily need to have a massive sound to produce a good result.
  14. Splitzer

    Splitzer Member

    Hang on. This record has got stuck again.
  15. SMead

    SMead Member

    Well, keep listening ;)
  16. doctor thick

    doctor thick New Member

    I was really pleased for B and R. Their time will come again in yorkshire. They have the best conductor in that area by a country mile and with a couple of players recruited in key possitions which they have the pulling power to do, talent will prevail over the dark shadow of cliche ridden mediocrity that has made banding the bore fest it has been for the last 7/8 years. I was surprised at the relatively simple nature of what was obviously a concert item with a random cadenza section thrown in for contests. Why is it that was apparently a championship test peice yet the very hard and musically pukka Diversions on a bass theme is now a lower section peice? The Albert hall was fairly dead, time for a change? After all London is getting harder and harder to afford and navigate in these tough times.
  17. tkhbss

    tkhbss Member

    So how do we move to open, separate adjudication for example? Who are we waiting for .... the bands themselves?
  18. marc71178

    marc71178 Member

    So not actually answering the question then...
  19. _si

    _si Member

    Sorry, I will try to make my point a little clearer....

    Q: How would the adjudicator follow the score whilst at the same time watch the band on stage?

    A: He wouldn't be able to, but the fact that he 'MAY' be watching would be enough to stop bands trying to deceive him.
  20. bassendworld

    bassendworld Member

    How refreshing to hear a relative new comer to adjudicating at the highest level take the trouble that they had listened with interest to the composer on the pre contest talk and that they understood his requirements of the picture he painted with the music.

    B&R obviously found that picture as well.

    Others may have been technically faultless and produced a massive sound

    Alas according to the only person that knows that wasn't what was required.

    No issue

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