Relegation after Promotion

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by glen miler, Mar 12, 2007.

  1. glen miler

    glen miler Member

    Trying to work out who may or may not go down from the section my band is in.

    Can a band who has just been promoted and has two average scores for the last two years be relegated if this years result is bad enough to put them at the bottom?

    It was suggested to me there was excemption from relegation if you were newly promoted. I can't see anything in the rules about this.

    Anyone know?
  2. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    I also heard the opposite of this "that a band that had recently been relegated could not get an immediate promotion".

    However reading the current National rules there seems to be no mention of either of these "anecdotal" statements - is this something that was done in the past?

    Both of the above will be relevant in the Yorkshire area following this years results - Drighlington's first appearance in Champ since promotion last year would appear to be relegated and Stocksbridge's winning performance in this year's 1st section should mean they get an immediate promotion back to Champ section.
  3. Alan MacRae

    Alan MacRae Member

    There's a bit of a discussion on this in the West of England thread as this seemed like it might happen in the 2nd section. In that case it looks like I was worng and there were non-competing bands to take the relegation places, but reading through the rules on the kapitol website there is nothing to prevent a band going straight back up or back down in one year.
  4. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    This has happened relatively recently within the last two years in Scotland where a newly promoted band has gone straight back down even with the average points thing. There is no such thing as a "years grace" for a newly promoted band. You still have to ensure you finish high enough to survive. The arithmetic is weighted in favour of bands just entering the section but there are no definites.

    I know our promotion rules differ from other regions but as far as relegation goes we are pretty much in agreement with the rest of the UK.
  5. timbloke

    timbloke Member

    Exactly what BBSBB did between 2003 and 2005 - 2003 relegated from 1st Sect, 2004 2nd in 2nd section promoted, 2005 onwards competing in the 1st section.

    So I see no reason why not.
  6. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    I can't be 100% sure (for that you'd best speak to the registry direct) but I'm 99% certain there is no grace period either for promotion or relegation. It's perfectly possible to go straight back down or up if your result warrants it.
  7. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    A couple of years ago Knottingley were promoted from 1st Section to Championship Section and were immediately relegated after only one Top Section Areas appearance.
    Of course, there is the very dodgy area of "Appeals" to stay either up or down.
    I personally don't agree with them at all.
    Hush, Listen - Did you hear me opening a "Can of worms"?
    - Wilky
  8. Liz Loftus

    Liz Loftus Member


    Posted this on the WoE thread but thought it might get lost in with all the congratulations etc. Hopefully I'll get a few more responses here

    This seems to be the state of play at the bottom of the 2nd section WoE (unofficial)

    The 3 bands with the lowest points (an this is not official!!!) seem to be Kingswood (37) , St Stythians (35) and Test Valley (30). Test Valley & Kingswood have both not compete for the last 2 years). Added complications 1) Kingswood have now merged with Bristol East but not prior to the contest & therefor no longer exist. 2) Test Valley although not in the bottom 2 have not competed for 2 years.

    So, all you clever people out there who know the rules (I'm not being sarcastic!!) what happens now, do we count Kingswood as one band to go down and are St Stythians saved because is it technically correct that Test Valley go down. South Molton are still 1 point above Test Valley, but if that band also no longer exists, does this mean that South Molton go down along with St Stythians. If thats the case then the 2nd section will be down to 9 bands instead of 13 which seems a bit of a joke.

    Look forward to some feedback
  9. timbloke

    timbloke Member

    A can that has been opened plenty of times before although ?interestingly? (having just done a search) I cannot find a thread that specifically discusses it.
  10. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Totally agree there Tim - the comment actually came from someone at BBSBB on the coach going home after Bradford - I think it's a specially Championship/1st section promotion/relegation rule.

    I got the impression it was something from the past. Not having been involved with contesting until recently it would interesting to know if this so called "rule" ever existed.
  11. postie

    postie Member

    Slightly different subject about relegation in the Midland Area Darley Dale didn't compete and than got relegated to the 3rd section in 2006. Didn't compete in 2007 I was wondering whether they would drop into the 4th section for 2008 . This may well save a band from getting relegated to the 4th section who played last Saturday.
  12. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    Think there's a 3 year automatic disqualification for bands that do attend for 3 years on the trot. Similar situations have arisen before in Midlands - Thorntons? and didn't that have some relevance to the Ibstock Brick relegation issue from a number of years ago.

    I suppose the relegation due to non-attendance over a three year period gives any band in difficulties the chance to re-form and start again in an "easier"/lower section. Whilst it may be common knowledge that a band has given up competing there is nothing to say that in 2 or 3 years time a band like Darley Dale may be ready to start again.
  13. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    Isnt there a rule about being struck off from the contesting lists if you dont show up for 3 years running?

    Remember something being said at Avonbank (as a dep), a couple of years ago. They were saying that they HAD to compete that year, because they'd already missed two, and missing another would mean being totally struck off....

    (I could be wrong though....)
  14. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    m) Any band failing to compete for two consecutive years can be relegated, at the discretion of the Regional Committee, in addition to any action taken under Rule (g).

    n) Any band failing to compete for three consecutive years will be removed from the Grading Tables at the end of the third year. If such a band wishes to resume participation in the Contest, it will be treated as a first time entry in accordance with Rule (i).

  15. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    So, in other words, dont turn up for 3 years and you're in the 4th section.
  16. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    Not says they'd treat you like a new band. Don't they average the section of the player's most recent band to decide where a new band enters?
  17. Lauradoll

    Lauradoll Active Member

    Why have a year's grace? If you're not good enough to stay in the section, surely you must go down?
  18. imthemaddude

    imthemaddude Active Member

    Surely if the band starts on mid points when they get promoted or relegated, there is a smaller chance of them going back down than the bands at the bottom of the table, especially in the Midlands. Five Rivers had a bad show in the 3rd section last year and stayed up after their first year. The lack of bands mean they may well go up this year
  19. Craigsav83

    Craigsav83 Active Member

    As Johnmartin said, in Scotland there's alot of yo-yoing between sections, its not often that both bands promoted to the top section actually stay there for the following year. There have been cases too where a band has dropped 2 sections in 2 years, several in the past few years actually, that must be really demoralising for the bands - though its really down to section size - in the North West and Yorkshire, its usual that a newly promoted band will stay up for 2 years rather than disappear after one, nothing to do with a years grace, but the fact there are more bands!
  20. euph-man

    euph-man Member

    As far as I understand bands are not protected when promoted or demoted to a higher or lower section and have to stand or fall on their own performances. For example Besses in the northwest area for this year demoted to 1st section and came twelth out of thirteen and narrowly missed being immediatly demoted to the second section because of how the points worked out

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