Regrading bands

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by bandoboyo, Feb 11, 2011.

  1. bandoboyo

    bandoboyo New Member

    Right what's the form when a band takes a nose dive, fails to compete and then returns to competition? Couple of bands in that position around here and no one can tell me the score. Sure someone can.
  2. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    I think they're treated as a new band once they've missed three successive areas?
  3. Souter

    Souter Member

    These are the rules for Scotland - Don't know about Englandshire though.

    Any band failing to compete will be given one placing lower than the number of bands competing in that section.
    (j) Any band failing to compete for two consecutive years will be relegated. Any such relegation will be in addition to any action taken under Rule (f).
    (k) Any band failing to compete for three consecutive years will be removed from the grading register before compilation of the grading tables at the end of the third year. If such a band wishes to resume contesting it will be treated as a first time entry in the Fourth Section.
  4. bandoboyo

    bandoboyo New Member

    What assessment is made of a bands playing strength in Scotland when regrading?
  5. michellegarbutt

    michellegarbutt Supporting Member

    If you fail to compete for 2 years you are relegated. After 3 years you are removed from the table. If you then wish to start competing again you are treated as a new entry and will be assessed to seewhich section you compete in
  6. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    None! You must work your way from the 4th Section upwards.
  7. bandoboyo

    bandoboyo New Member

    Oooh harsh but fair I guess.
  8. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Last time I remember this happening was when Kelty & Blairadam was regrouped from a number of players mainly from Lochgelly, who were a Championship graded band at that time. K&B rose through the sections each year to Championship. They later merged with another local band Cowdenbeath and now are Kingdom Brass.
  9. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    I remember the great schism of 1989. :(

    I also remember that there was talk of Kingdom being graded in the fourth section as they were considered a new band. Thankfully common sense prevailed and Kingdom retained the grading of Longannet Colliery Cowdenbeath.
  10. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Fair on who? Not on the lower section bands who must miss out on a chance to represent their area at the national finals because they've been beaten by a band who don't belong in their section. I've always felt this is wrong, and I know there will be some who raise the objection that bands must in some way "pay their dues" before being given the opportunity to compete at the highest level, but in my view the fairest way to deal with newly formed bands (and to avoid the situation of opportunistic groups cynically reforming and going on a "pot-hunting" spree, at the expense of "genuine"lower section bands) is to put all new bands straight into the Championship section. Strange, you might think, but consider the logic: If the band is good enough to hold it's own in the Champ dection, then it will remain there. If not, then over a period of several years, it will gradually be relegated, until it finds the appropriate level. During that time of course, it will win nothing, and the dedication of the players will be sorely tested, but if they are committed, they will stick it out, until such time as they find themselves competing at a level to which they are suited. Granted, it's not an ideal solution in any way, but I don't see it being any worse than the current system, which in my view is grossly unfair on "real" lower section bands.
  11. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Sadlly, it took about that length of time for Lochgelly to get back to the top section. Hard work by yourself and other committed individuals. Hopefully, the band will again establish itself there for the future.
  12. SaddLad

    SaddLad New Member

  13. davethehorny

    davethehorny Member

    Correct - all new bands in England should be assessed and graded accordingly. Registered players should be looked at and their experience taken into consideration.

    The regional committee can request that the band is visited by a qualified adjudicator (at the bands expense) and perform a piece of music of the level that they wish to be graded.

    The regional committee base their grading on the advice of the adjudicator and any knowledge of the individuals registered to play for that band.

    Any new band should have to apply to be graded prior to entering the Areas. They can also apply to be graded higher than the 4th Section (as happened with Storm Brass entering in the 1st Section at their first Area Contest).

    Having said all that, there is nothing to stop a band being graded 4th Section and then signing a load of new players after being graded.

    In the last two years a band in the West of England, that had previously been Championship Section and then disappeared from the rankings, reappeared in 2009 4th Section only to qualify for the Nationals. The following year they also qualified and then got promotion.

    Interestingly that bands conductor reappears this year with another re-established band that is entering for the first time this year. I am sure that this is just a coincidence.

    It will be interesting to see how the three bands that were not included in the rankings perform this year at the West of England Area Contest. They will have average points carried forward for the last two years, therefore it means that they come in to the gradings ranked equal eighth.

    Are we setting a precedent for bands that do badly, not to compete at the area contest for three years, rebuild and come back into the rankings in possibly a stronger position than if they had competed?

    Surely there should be a reward for bands who continually support their Area Contest but don't finish above half way? They are penalised by the promotion system for taking part compared to those who stay away for three years.

    Having said all that I am not sure what the answer is other than to start all new bands level with the lowest graded band in the area. At least that might persuade all 4th Section bands to make the effort to compete. Slightly different in the sections above because relegation should be penalty enough.