Registration question

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by sudcornet, Feb 16, 2009.

  1. sudcornet

    sudcornet Member

    Our esteemed secretary received some correspondence from the Regional Secretary recently. It ended with the following request that appears to jarr with the registration rules.

    Its written in red and reads as follows :-

    Would Secretaries please note that all players who wish to play in this Contest must be registered with the British Brass Band Registry in time to be included on the Registration Report which will be compiled and sent by Registry to the Region on Friday the 6th March 2009" (15 days before the contest)

    To me, this creates a conflict if a band were to apply for a new registration which would become effective on the date received by the registry ie: potentially the day before the contest.

    Or am I missing something?

  2. backrowbloke

    backrowbloke Member

    Often mis-understood. Contest rules are decided by the contest organisers, not the registry or BFBB. AFIK Kapitol (owners and organisers of the Nationals) and the individual area committees have the right to implement any contest rules they feel necessary.
  3. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    I think you may have mis-understood this.
    The OP is talking about the Regional Contest - the area committee do not have the right to implement their own contest rules, they operate under the National Rules of the National Brass Band Championships of Great Britain, owned by Kapitol.

    Extract from page 5 of the rules: (underline is mine)

    "Kapitol Promotions ..... , Owner of the title, National Brass Band Championships of Great Britain, and of the National Rules that apply to the eight Regional Championships ....."
  4. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    From last years's registration report:

    Verification Form
    As usual these are to be used for any new registrations that have not been processed in time to be included on the registration report.

    This form is still on the website so would appear to be still in use.
  5. waynefiler

    waynefiler Member

    Does any anyone know the email address for Colin Johnson at the band registry?

    I've looked on the website but can't access the link to email or find an address anywhere.


  6. mdfreeman

    mdfreeman Member

  7. waynefiler

    waynefiler Member

  8. mdfreeman

    mdfreeman Member

    No probs.. Hate websites with embedded mail links!! :frown:
  9. Baritonedeaf

    Baritonedeaf Member

    They will be listed on your Registration report - even if the date when they can play is later than the report. Our latest report dated 29/1/09 has the usual two pages of players who are currently registered, titled "Active Players report" and then an extra page with the title "Incoming Players Report" which lists the player who has transferred to our band and his effective date: 25/2/09.

    As such if you have a player that you have signed so that their effective date is the day before the contest, you must have signed them 2 weeks before the deadline to submit this report - therefore he will be on your player report, albeit as an incoming player, although his effective date will be before the contest.

    That is my understanding of it anyway. :)
  10. old warrior

    old warrior New Member

    By using the regsitration verification form you can register a player up to three days before the actual contest date and play that player at the contest, it does not matter that they will not appear on the print out from registry.

    Providing you have completed the registration verification form and received the registration number from Colin at registry you are within the rules of the contest and can play that player - regardless of what your regional secretary has said.

    Incidentally which region are you referring too?
  11. scotchgirl

    scotchgirl Active Member

    As far as I understood it (and this actually happened to us one year at the Nationals and had to be verified by the registry the day before we played)....NEW registrations have to be at the registry at least 3 days before the contest....

    However, if you speak to Colin at the Registry he should be able to confirm any rules/changes that have happened regarding the Nationals rules.

    I always thought that Area committees were autonomous and so could implement any amendments to the rules that they wish (just like any contest).

    Our Area (the Midlands) used to have a rule that all the registration cards had to be sent to the contest controller 4 weeks before the contest!
  12. old warrior

    old warrior New Member

    Scotchgirl you are correct regarding the three days prior to the contest. Providing you have got the registration verification form to registry and got the registration number the player can play in the contest.

    These transaction can be carried out by usinbg the fax service.

    Quite a few regions did require to see all cards four weeks before the contest, this was to check for any registration cards that were not up to date, this meant that bands then still had time to get them amended before the date of contest.

    This was done away with when registry offered this new service of print outs thus avaoiding the need for cards checking.
  13. old warrior

    old warrior New Member

    Does anybody know which region Sudcornet is refering to when he states they have put this statement out with the instructions to bands?
  14. Blossom

    Blossom Member

    According to his profile Sudcornet is in North of England region
  15. old warrior

    old warrior New Member

    Having looked on Kapitol website to see who the regional secretary is, and it is Alan Hope, he should know better that to put out such a statement like that.

    the region committe can't alter the rules, as each band has agreed to abide by the rules published by Kapitol, when they signed their entry form to the contest.
  16. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Hopefully someone will have a chat with Colin and the relevant regional committe about this and be able to quote them on here, or better yet get them to post themselves!

    Fwiw in the meantime, this is my take on it:

    1. Kapitol's latest rules (effective 01/01/09) clearly state that they govern all the Regional Championships. "Contest Management" (for the areas, this is the regional committee) can change those rules (or introduce new ones), by request to Kapitol and referral to the Rules Review Body. That may be what's happened in this case - someone should ask their Regional Secretary for confirmation.

    If this 15 days/printout rule has been approved by Kapitol then the bands in that area are stuck with it. If it hasn't been approved, then they should be arguing the toss because...

    2. Kapitol rules state that all players must be registered according to the relevant Registry rules & procedures, therefore BBBR rules apply for new registrations.

    3. Under BBBR rules, a new registration is valid on the date the application is received at the Registry. When there's problems with post and/or time, they will accept faxed copies of the documents and issue a registration number which goes on the verification form. The registration is valid as long as the paperwork arrives by post within 7 days, so technically a player can be registered the day before a contest and still compete.

    In that context the 15 days/printout rule is a pile of brown smelly stuff and if it had been introduced by my regional committee I'd be ignoring it.... unless they could prove their rule has been approved by Kapitol.
  17. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    If this was the case I think we would all have heard as the following then applies:
    The Rules Review Body will seek opinions from the Regional Committees in this process."​
    This infers that a rule change would apply to all which is consistent with the view that all bands work under the same set of rules.
  18. old warrior

    old warrior New Member

    Having just spoken with our regional secretary he confirms that there are no rule changes at all.

    He also said that the Northen Area are wrong in issuing the statement that they have sent out to their bands
  19. michellegarbutt

    michellegarbutt Supporting Member

    When I saw this post I thought the best thing to do was to email Alan Hope and ask for clarification.

    This is the reply I recieved

    The reminder on the bottom of my last letter was just that - a reminder as a help to secretaries to register players before the Registration Report is produced. The verification Form as a facility still exists and we have no intention of changing that - it is a National Rule and one, which like all other National Rules , this Committee will uphold to the letter - we have always done so.

    You have entered the contest and signed an Entry Form accepting the National Rules and there is obviously no way that we would wish not to honour that.

    Alan Hope

    Regional Secretary"

    So the rules have not changed and we can still use verification forms
  20. sudcornet

    sudcornet Member

    Well done Michelle. As I thought really, and it won't actually affect my band. It was just the special emphasis given to that section at the end of the letter in red made me wonder if there'd been a change I wasn't aware of. I think Mr Hope could have perhaps clarified his request a bit better.


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