Regionals 2008. One Adjudicator or Two??

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by boover, Oct 14, 2007.

  1. boover

    boover Member

    With the majority of Regional qualifying contests using two adjudicators in 2008, what are your views on making this a rule for all the qualifying contests. Surely to make sure the best bands in the country compete at the national finals in London and Harrogate we should stop using the excuse of financial reasons for not putting two in the box. Let your views be known here ( especially from the one in a box regions ) so we can print this thread off and send it to the regional organisers to show what the bands really think.............
     
  2. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    so when you get two people who disagree with your opinion as to where you came, will that make it easier to accept? ;)
     
  3. Owen S

    Owen S Member

    Personally, I think we should have two adjudicators for every area. However, that's my personal opinion, and since having two adjudicators hits bands directly in the pocket, it should be up to the bands themselves as to whether there are two in the box or one.

    Of course, sometimes there are too many contests on a single day, and it's impossible anyway, but that's another matter.

    Oh, and honestly, a discussion thread on an internet forum really won't give a fair report of all bands' views.
     
  4. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    Is one of the adjudicators designated as the more senior? What happens if they disagree with who should win?
     
  5. postie

    postie Member

    Seems like two adjudicators seems to be the way to go and I certainly wouldn't disagree with that. As for the two not agreeing with each other they will probably sit in the box for a long time talking about it and thrashing it out before they come to a decision. Well lets hope that's what happens anyway!!!!
     
  6. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    And once everywhere has two, there'll be the usual fuss about one influencing the other so they need to be in separate boxes, then someone will demand that there should be three, and so it will continue......:rolleyes:

    Plus there'll still be as many "controversial" results with two.

    I play in the North West and honestly, I'm really not bothered, and as far as I know it's not a hot topic for anyone in my band either.
     
  7. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    Why is everyone assuming the two adjudicators have to agree?. I would have thought that both adjudicators give their marks and a band is placed upon either an average of both the marks of both marks added together. If the adudicators have differing views as to what was good or bad about a performance then they may well have heard different good and bad points about the performance. Surely this is much better than simply relying on what ( in my opinion ) seems to amount to a fair degree of pot-luck that you happen to hit on what the adjudicator is looking for. With two you stand at least a better chance, and it does make the result slightly more palatable.

    If memory serves correct some time ago BFBB sent out a questionnaire about what improvements bands would like to see in the nationals. http://www.4barsrest.com/news/detail.asp?criteria=survey&year=2005&Submit=find&id=211

    115 bands wanted two adjudicators.... sadly the regional committees in some areas seem the think different......
     
  8. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    Don`t blame the regions who currently have just have one adjudicator for this mess!....the problem began when 2 regions broke ranks from the rest and decided to go it alone on this issue and since then other regions have followed suit in dribs and drabs.
    I do find it strange that some people still think we have a "National" mechanism to decide issues like this...we don`t folks!... each region does as it pleases.
    Hence chaos and disatisfaction ensues!
     
  9. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Isn't this what the Masters did for a while? - they may still do, I don't really know. And didn't it result in some odd results where one adjudicators marks differed wildly from the other two and skewed the average?

    (I'm not being sarky, I genuinely can't remember and I should be working so I can't surf 4BR to check!)
     
  10. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    Yes I think your right ( about it being the masters ) but then how many times have there been results with one adjudicator where their choice of winners does not match those if the audience or bandsmen?. Thats contesting and thats the problem, as has been said on so many occasions there is no clear cut method to determine musical interpretaion ( though techincal issues such as tuning, splits, ensemble etc can be clearly defined ).

    I don't disagree that two adjudicators also comes with it's own issues, but I still feel that the margin for "error" ( for want of a better phrase ) is lessened.
     
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  12. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    Totally agree, I just find it very sad when regional commitees don't listen to their own bands... :(
     
  13. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    The regions who opted for two judges would argue of course that they did listen, hence the change!
    Back to the OP, it surely can`t be an "excuse" that some regions can`t afford 2 judges, it`s obviously the deciding factor!!
    Remember don`t blame the regions who kept to the single adjudicator, look toward the regions who opted for 2 without reference to the rest!
     
  14. McEuphie

    McEuphie Member

    Read an interesting article in BB over the weekend about adjudications:

    3 judges, 3 boxes, 3 results! :confused:

    Is it any better/fairer having 2 or 3 different opinions?

    The new system proposed by Alan Morrison and now adopted by ABBA may help out, but remains to be seen.

    BUT we will still get the "We was robbed" syndrom because on the day it is 1, 2 or 3 personal opinions.

    The Judge is the Judge and his(her) decision is final. :clap:
     
  15. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't matter if you had 1, 2, 3, separate boxes, Red Peppers and Green Tomatoes or Big Brother style text voting, there would still be 1 band ecstatic with the result and a good half a dozen feeling miserably hard done to - see the current threads from members of Uppermill and Elland Youth. McEuphie is right, someone will always feel "robbed".
     
  16. Mr_Euniverse

    Mr_Euniverse Member

    For many bands, there is so much riding on the area contest.

    The associations need to be seen to do something to get a good result for the bands that deserve it. 2 adjudicators for the Spring Festival, 3 for the Open / London. Why only one for Area??

    2 definately.
    However this subject is out of our hands
     
  17. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    Because the regions concerned can`t afford it!
     
  18. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    But it isn't - in fact the area contest is one of the few major ones where the local association decides, and your band sends a rep (in theory) to your local association. The fact that a lot of regions haven't bothered kind of indicates the apathy with which this issue is regarded by a lot of bands, don't you think?

    Trouble is, tMP (and the 4BR comments pages) is what's known as a "self-selecting sample" - the people who are interested and can be bothered to comment on an issue, do. Those who aren't, or can't, don't; so we only really see the issue raised and discussed by people who feel strongly about it. I suspect an awful lot of bands (and I know I'm generalising horribly here) don't get involved in the debate because they don't give a monkey's.
     
  19. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I think this issue highlights the need for uniformity in our Area contests, it is clear that the original poster feels he is disadvantaged in Wales because of only one judge and perhaps others feel the same way too!
     
  20. Captain Cymru

    Captain Cymru Member

    Which are the regions employing two adjudicators next year then?
     
  21. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    All are except North West and Wales I think!..waits to be corrected!
     
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