Radio Two

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by alanl58, Mar 3, 2011.

  1. alanl58

    alanl58 Member

    Well done Sale Brass Band on the Jeremy Vine show this lunchtime!

    Points made were just right (no tuition in schools, other distractions, lack of brass on BBC etc), though I doubt anyone will take any notice.

  2. toby hobson

    toby hobson Member

    there is tuition in schools. Quite a bit of it in fact.............
  3. essexgirl

    essexgirl Member

    Thanks Alan, the members of the band who played all thoroughly enjoyed the experience, after some clarification whether it was the Jeremy Kyle or Jeremy Vine show that they would be appearing on:D.

    Any publicity of that sort can only be good for the brass band movement in general.
  4. KenIrvin

    KenIrvin Member

    If this is the case why are we not seeing more coming through to their local brass band?
  5. steveash49

    steveash49 New Member

    It was myself that made the comments on the Jeremy Vine show. I was keen to make such a comment about broadcasts but felt it was a bit cheeky to do so on Radio 2 - at least they've got Frank Renton! FREE brass tuition is a subject very close to my heart having campaigned for it to when I lived in Scotland. Due to the efforts of our members Sale Brass have a thriving training band - as I'm sure many others bands do (if not, why not?) but it would certainly help if it tuition was more widely available in schools! With all the budget cuts heading our way I'm very fearful things will only get worse.

    I have to say, without sucking up, Jeremy and his team made us all feel very relaxed. The last thing we thought would happen was that he'd involve us in the issues discussed in the show. All very enjoyable and a great experience - if it's helped to highlight brass banding in the UK then that's a real bonus. Thanks to all for comments received through our website (

    Steve (Ewan's dad!)
  6. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Because, often, brass tuition in schools is biased against brass bands. beginners are enouraged to play trumpet intead of cornet, french horn instead of tenor horns, and euph/trom/tuba players are taught bass clef from day one.

    Not saying that's the case universally, but it is common.
  7. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    Couldn't agree more Gareth. And also encouraged to join orchestras locally instead, which is fine and encourageble but you answer the question in regards to Brass Bands well. We should split the talent if we care enough. Not all areas are Brass Band orientated. In the common cases you mention, brass bands are very much frowned upon or ignored as not an educational background at times.

    In some cases, I have seen. Schools complain about lack of opportunities in the area, yet choose to ignore correspondence and/or personnel from bands. Again, not in all cases. More joint proactivity and collaboration is required in these cases.
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2011
  8. Carryon_Cornet

    Carryon_Cornet New Member

    I am a brass peri (although the term 'peri' is now extinct!) in a borough that is not heavily brass orientated. We do have a junior brass group but intermediate and senior ensembles are both wind/concert bands.

    I trully believe that the opportunities for children to learn any brass instruments are there within all local music services but unfortunately children today want instant results (parents want peace and quiet!) that I'm suer we all realise cannot be achieved with any musical instrument.

    I myself teach trumpet, cornet, baritone, euphonium, and trombone in treble clef and believe that if a child 'sticks' with an instrument and gets to a good standard, bass clef can be taught at a later date. We have at the moment very few children learning horn of either variety (or tuba) which saddens me greatly :-(

    As I'm sure most people are aware music teaching is under great scrutiny at the moment after the Henley report. It would be a disaster if the brass band movement continues to suffer a decline because of funding cuts and apathy within education.

    I am not a qualified teacher but a cornet player with an SA background who wants children to get as much from playing a brass instrument as I did as a child and still do as an adult.

    I haven't listened to Sale Band on BBC radio yet but am off to do so now!! I'm sure they did the band movement proud and should be applauded for giving brass banders and their undoubted passion an airing in the public arena.
  9. toby hobson

    toby hobson Member

    Well they do around here. Nationally this maybe a different picture. Personally as a teacher I nail my colors firmly to the mast and I teach Brass Band instruments. Cornets, Thorns, Euphs Baris, Treble Clef Tuba, Treble Clef Trom. Banding did a lot for me and I want to continue that. But I feel the Brass Band offers the quickest and most commonly available route for kids to play at a high level, setting kids up as "orchestral players" is all very well, but the standard of orchestras are dreadful and its not until you play at a fairly good professional level that the level of perfection required in a second section Brass Band is demanded. Ive heard professional Orchestras on the Proms playing really really slack and not even together.

    Generally if kids are good at music and have the huge dedication to play to a high level then they will be good at most subjects which means the likelihood is they will go to "Uni" or University as it used to be called. Many kids go to "uni" to study a 3 year course in "Meeeejya" once upon a time the cream of the crop used to get to University to study topics of importance and theology. Many kids who expect the three year binge as a matter of course go off to "uni" and stop playing. Hopefully this new contest for University's may help address that but more importantly our multimillionaire, toff cabinet has all but stopped the "casual" higher education Gravy train, so the likelihood is more kids will stay where they are many getting jobs in McDonald's and in call centers but supporting there local band....lets hope anyway
  10. KenIrvin

    KenIrvin Member

    This seems to be the problem in my area as well. Its easy to blame others but I suspect we lack in school music teachers who are enthusiastic about brass band - some even believe the negative image (of boozers etc as seen in Brassed Off) and so actively discourage youngsters to join
  11. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Active Member

    It all depends where you are - in one particular school I work in there are two brass teachers, both teaching euphonum. I use treble clef, the other one swears that they should only ever use bass clef (ex-military euphonium player).
    I use treble clef for euphonium because that is what the majority of the literature is written for. In the same way that trumpet players need to eventually learn transposition, I will introduce bass clef to euphonium players as "something you WILL need."
    Likewise the assorted clefs for trombone.
    When working in the Wider Opportunities/classroom environment I use treble clef for trombone - because it is within a group of 30 mixed instruments - trumpet, euphonium and trombone. The idea of having to teach them about transposing instruments is an added complication that I prefer to avoid. If the students then continue their trombone studies then I will usually transfer them over to bass clef because the majority of the bands they will come into contact with are orchestral or windband-based and so bass clef will be of more use.

    As for the cornet/trumpet debate - I have students on both. Some become trumpet players, some become cornet players. If a trumpet student wants to join a brass band, I have no problems with them playing both imstruments - I do (and don't get any complaints about being a trumpeter when holding a cornet). The youth bands in the area that are doing well aren't quite so elitist when it comes to instrument choice and will happily allow young players to play a trumpet with them.

    French horn/tenor horn - don't care, have students on both - although not as many as I would like. Both are rare instruments.

    There are MANY reasons why the music in schools might not always feed into local bands - there is a large amount of tuition going on in many schools, but trying to get parents (and students) interested in playing bands is a definite issue. The majority of my students don't play in ANY local groups, regardless of what genre the group is based in. Many of them are legitimately very busy doing everything else that young people do - it is very difficult for many of them to add a band into their weekly routine, alongside three (and upwards) sporting groups (which parents are always very keen on supporting), homework, cubs/guides/scouts and all the other extra-curricular stuff that goes on.

    There is a long rant that could be delivered about music in schools (and the lack of support for it), but suffice to say that there IS music happening in many schools - not all (sadly), but there IS music out there.
    As for the quality of the music - that is yet another VERY long rant
  12. tromwinst

    tromwinst Member

    It is also the case that peri or music service teachers opt ot offer their companies services. eg, wind band, jazz band, orchestra and brass band. They gently push them in this direction as this keeps their service going.

    Is it time that there was a way to keep the peri teachers as they do a great job, but have the teaching become cheaper and let the kids or players go to their local bands?

    This would cut down the running costs of big services yet keep peri teaching going and because of this surely the cost of brass tuition will decrease?

    This, to me, seems to be helping everybody.
  13. essexgirl

    essexgirl Member

  14. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Active Member

    Because not everywhere has local bands.

    I work in an area not known for local youth bands (many have gone under over the years) - if it wasn't for the music service running ensembles then the students would have nowhere to play.

    It is perfectly possible for students to do music service based ensembles and local bands - neither should have to lose out.
  15. maryellan

    maryellan New Member

    Well done to sale Brass Band. It was a real surprise to hear a Brass Band on National day time radio 2. Band sounded great! And you managed to get the point across regarding the lack of air time which is given to Brass Bands on National Radio 2, well done. It has really wet my appetite . I am going to the west of England championships next week! to listen. There , it is quite apparent on how few youngsters are taking up brass playing.! A real shame!!!
  16. tromwinst

    tromwinst Member

    You must have very good kids and supportive parents if, along side all the other stuff kids do, they are willing to run them to maybe 3,4 or 5 rehearsals per week.

    My point was reduce the size of the music service, get teachers back teaching rather than 30 kids at a time which is what most peri teachers trained to do. I would love to know the facts and figures of how many pupils carry on from wider ops and to what standard they reach compared to normal tuition. ( That, I suppose, is a different thread! )Thus cutting the overall cost of tuition.

    Then all the fantastic tuition that is going on can be supported by people/teachers setting up brass groups or brass bands on an evening that is of a minimal cost to the kids. That's all that happens in the areas I presume you are talking about that do have youth groups around them?

    Plus if you are part of the music service round where I am, you are not actively pushed to source other avenues of musical experience as this does not keep the music service running, especially not if the kids decide to leave the band for another.

    Please don't get me wrong my dad is head of service for a music school and I know he is an extremely good teacher and that you guys are all very good teachers. This is not about calling the music services this is about making better, smaller group tuition available at the cheapest cost to the children possible. Then people putting some of their own time aside to set up groups that children can attend in their local area.
  17. Brass_Head

    Brass_Head New Member

    Sadly, as well as the term 'peri' becoming exstinct so are the jobs they used to do in most Local Authorities.

    The ravaging of our music services in the name of the 'current economic climate' and the 'age of austerity' is set to make matters a good deal worse.

    (The personal views of a music teacher, headteacher and former peri)

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