Quaver followed by two semiquavers

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by hellraiser, Sep 10, 2004.

  1. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    In Arban, page 10, it say that to correctly play these you must play the quaver as a semiquaver, this is what I used to do when younger.

    However these days I tend to play them with a full length quaver. I find that playing them like this has the benefit of them not being rushed and they're far easier to play too. Also I think they sound better and arguably it is the correct way to read too because if the composer had meant for it to be a semiquaver instead of a quaver then he/she should have written so or put a staccato dot in it.

    I've found that the long quaver seems to be the norm in the better bands these days. Some would maybe describe this style as orchestral?!?

    Your thoughts please.
     
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  3. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to this one..... imho it depends on
    1. style of music
    2. tempo
    3. what the md tells you to do!!!
     
  4. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    I think Arban want's it that way to avoid developing the bad habits people often have of either playing the semis too short and late or, more common, slowing down because the quaver is too long.

    I was always told that you should play the same exercises in as many different styles as possible - long, short, stacc, accented etc - to build up your vocabulary of playing techniques/styles.
     
  5. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    In my experience of playing with Championship bands, the best bands always play correct note lengths. Only occasionally will a conductor come along and say play all those quavers short.

    Another example is when you have four quavers with the first two and last two slured. Some people will demand the second and fourth quaver to be played short. Again I think they do this because that's the style they want. However the problems with this I think are that some players will then rush the quavers because the second one is short they'll get to the third quaver too soon hence the quavers get rushed. It seems that playing full quaver lengths is a good way of putting the brakes on.
     
  6. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    Let me provide you with a few examples of where some people prefer long notes and some prefer short notes

    Light Cavalry or William Tell - full length or short quavers?

    Gregson's Laudate Dominum (?), the 3/4 ending. Some prefer a long crotchet at the start of every two bars, others prefer all crotchets to be equally short.
     
  7. aimee_euph

    aimee_euph Member

    when i play it it's usually long as in my head im thinking of two semiquavers to break the quaver up.

    unless written, it's long for me.
     
  8. TIMBONE

    TIMBONE Active Member

    When I play a quaver followed by two semiquavers, I don't play the quaver as a semiquaver, however, I automatically apply "DECAY" to the quaver.
     
  9. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

    have no probs with that but 4 semis, 2 slurred 2 tounged, now thats a different kettle of fish, leaves me with 2 bogey bars in Rhapsody for Euph :(

    Mind the quaver semiquaver business tends to be long for me
     
  10. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    :lol: ... don't you just hate it when bands sound too brass bandy? ;)

    I personally hate short played notes unless it's written staccato.... then rules apply... etc... blah.... ;-) :lol: I wont start.............
     
  11. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    ...when a bit younger and over-enthusiastic racing through solos and any part I could set eyes on, I was taken aside and given advice how to start controlling performance. It was so simple and effective.... sub-divide the measures to the lowest value the tempo would allow. Subconsciously counting through the phrases helped regulate any combination of note-values. Once the basics are in place, the duration of the quaver can be varied without disrupting the rhythm to enhance style.
     
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  13. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    I'm with you on this one. I guess the changeover for many people from short brass bandy quavers to fuller quavers can be difficult as well if people are so used to doing it.

    I wonder when did bands start to ditch the short quavers?
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2004
  14. Moy

    Moy Active Member

    Re long or short quavers the answer always the same, it has to be......................what the MD asks for.

    Right or wrong at least you should all be together, it's when you get some saying well I am going to do it my way that things sound wrong.

    Discussed this with "hellraiser" on MSN this morning and my views are still the same. :)
     
  15. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    Normally I try and play the quaver longer... what with being a lazy git I naturally try and end the quaver early so I can move to the next position but once I think about it I make the quaver as long as possible without it merging into the first semi... then again that's only when I'm doing solo stuff. In a band situation it's A)what fits with everyone else and B) what the guy with the pointy stick asks for...
     
  16. hellraiser

    hellraiser Member

    People say there's no right or wrong for short or long quavers. I don't entirely agree with that statement. There is certainly a successful and an unsuccessful interpretation of the quaver length - if the judge in the box doesn't like the choice you make... then you've taken the incorrect decision.

    There must be a majority of opinion for or against the short quaver for pieces, this is what I'm trying to get at. So for a certain piece, if you don't know the judge's preference then you go along with what the majority of people prefer, if you want to play the percentages and maximise your chances of success at the contest.

    Is it just a mere coincidence that the top section bands I've played with don't play quavers short unless marked staccato and that the lower section bands I've played with tend to play the quavers short as a rule? Or has there been a change of opinion over the years in top bands about how these quavers are played but this is yet to trickle down to the lower section bands?
     
  17. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    I think Arban explained it the way he did for a pedagogical reason and no more. Just like a lot of American Band texts now teach mixed 8th/16th rhythms using common denominator and subdividing the long note.

    In the case of the titika or quaver and 2 semis.....
    1) subdivide the quaver to another 2 semis
    2) play the 4 semis repeatedly.
    3) tie the 1st two semis together (I call this a hi or a ha) and play the separate 2.

    so you go from tika tika tika tika tika
    to tiha tika tiha tika
    to titika titika.
     
  18. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Are we talking about quavers the note or quavers the snack? I eat my quavers full length but if I feel I'm begining to get a bit full up, then I'll snap 'em in half and eat accordingly.

    Yum.
     
  19. jpbray

    jpbray Member

    Bit cheesy Dave!!! :p :p :p
     
  20. jpbray

    jpbray Member

    Being a BBb bass player counting is not one of our strong suites, thats if we have any at all. However, my son is better player than me and he is always on about sub-dividing, and to me this seems the way to go.
     
  21. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    I disagree. As a bass player, I feel it is my duty to be as accurate and true to the beat as I can allow, and as such I am ALWAYS mentally subdividing.

    Off topic, but still relevent
     
  22. jpbray

    jpbray Member

    Sorry Okiedokie are right; wry pom hummour :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     

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