Premier Division?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by eflatbass, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. eflatbass

    eflatbass Supporting Member

    The contesting scene: currently, we have Championship, 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th sections. I would be interested to hear member’s views on the introduction of a new, Premier Division. :eek:

    What would be the advantages?
    What would be the disadvantages?

    I can envisage all kinds of objections; nevertheless, perhaps there may be some supporters of such a development.
  2. GordonH

    GordonH Active Member

    Is that not how Championship section came in to being?

    Maybe someone can remember when that was, but I am sure within my lifetime as I remember it happening.
  3. towse1972

    towse1972 Active Member

  4. Columbo

    Columbo Member

    I agree also, Donna. It would only confirm what we already know. That is, banding is now governed by the elite, with little consideration for the minions below. Therefore, we could have Elite, Championship, 1st Section and so on?
  5. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    No, that's how the 1st section came into being. A need for an additional section was identified, and rightly so. Unfortunately the way it was implemented was misguided (being charitable here).

    What should have happened is the top 20 or so bands separated off into an "Elite" division (could still have been called the Championship section), with the remaining bands being rebalanced across the 4 remaining sections.
  6. eflatbass

    eflatbass Supporting Member

    That, to me, would have been a very sensible solution, particularly considering the large gulf existing between the very best of our championship bands, and those balancing on the thin line separating 1st section from championship section.
  7. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    Why not leave the divisions the same and just have a Champions League that gets to compete at the English Nationals, Open and Brass & Concert (since we're so nearly there anyways).
  8. animal.22

    animal.22 Member

    Yup! Wot he sez. Coz it strikes me thats exactly wot appens!!!!

    MOD EDIT: "txt-speech" or similar things are not allowed on this forum
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2011
  9. Space Cowboy

    Space Cowboy Member

    The premier league in footy was formed because the top clubs at that time 1991 ish were not happy with the way their governing body the Football League split the tv revenues received.

    The premier league was set up with the the FA as its governing body and was therefore able to set its own rules re tv revenue split.

    This is where the real benefit to the top contesting bands could be - don't do what happened before with the creation of champ/1st sections. Set up a premier league that was not run under the current banding governing body, whoever that is, enabling new contest formats, adjudicating methods - Steve Mead's ideas seem great to me, open adjudication - whatever.

    Do as the premier league did - set up within the wider governing body - uefa / EBBA - and negotiate promotion / relegation with the old governing body - football league / BFBB?

    Saves having to try to get the dinosaurs to change, we know they didn't - they died out, and enables new ideas to be implemented quickly.

    Seems obvious to me, but it's late so I hope this makes sense.
  10. defnotsimon

    defnotsimon Member

    I dont see the point in it personally. Grading of bands only affects the Regionals and Nationals Finals.

    The English Nationals, with the invitation process, is the closest that there is to a true Premier Division. And I believe that I read quite a few posts on here complaining about which bands were invited to that contest!
  11. toby hobson

    toby hobson Member

    I don't think we have a problem with too many great bands. Great bands generaly will always be ok. Its too many average/half staffed bands that are the problem. If we were going to be logical and cold about it, what bands need to do is merge. That would raise the standard/fill up the average higher section bands and provide better quality players for the lower sections that would filter down from the higher echelons and also would mean limited sponsorship and concert money could be around to help a now smaller pool of bands that need it
  12. Cantonian

    Cantonian Active Member

    I agree totally. We have several bands in South Wales particularly at the Championship/1st section level who are down to less than 20 players (and some a lot less). They would prefer to struggle on, borrowing players for concerts and contests rather than sitting down, pooling resources and merging or rationalising. The first section at the regionals this year will have several bands who are in this very situation, having been very good Championship section bands (qualifying for the RAH in the past 5-6 years) but having lost players find themselves struggling to raise a full band for the regionals.

    It is sad to see this situation whereby bands of immense heritage struggle because they are too proud to talk to other bands and possibly lose their 'name'.

    In this area could not for example the SEWBBA, knowing the situation, facilitate discussions between bands?
  13. eflatbass

    eflatbass Supporting Member

    I actually started a thread some time ago regarding the merging of bands, and I personally agree that it would seem to be the way forward. The number of bands on this forum alone who are pleading for new players is absolutely staggering.

    To me, it is pretty obvious that there are simply not enough players to fill seats, so how long can some of our bands continue to survive unless they do not seek mergers with other groups?
  14. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    The comments re the English Premier League in football reflect the fact that the EPL was created in response to an identified financial issue and may have provided a satisfactory answer from that perspective. But, on the field of play, regardless of whether you call it by the original designation (1st Division, 2nd Division etc.) or Premier League etc. as it's known today, the various "divisions" still reflect the level of play achieved within each division. I would suggest that little else, if anything, has changed since the creation of the EPL. You only have to look at the league standings to see that you still have the few top teams in the EPL and the "rest".

    Some years ago a short-lived attempt to create a sort of Premier League in banding was designated the World Championships. All it did was place the heavy weights in their own category and reduced the numbers of bands competing for the ultimate prize, to be recognized as "The Best".

    There are a number of bands (8, 10??) that stand above the rest on "the field of play". As the league standings reflect that in football, results on (and perhaps off) the contesting stage produce the same result in banding.

    Personally, I don't see how the suggestion would change much if anything.
  15. TrumpetTom

    TrumpetTom Member

    Don't know if someones said this already, but you make it sound as if there are only elite/ premier/ champianship/ whatever you want to call them bands and good 1st section bands in the champianship section when really it aint catagoric like that, it's continuous. Agreed there are some good 1st section bands in the top section but say you were to introduce the premier section, where would be your cut off? Perhaps a smaller champianship section and a larger 1st section would be a better idea. Then again, I know alot of these good 1st section bands love to play against bands such as black dyke, even though they have next to no chance of beating them.
  16. It wouldn't work in my opinion, like in yorkshire u have 4 or 5 elite bands, north west you have 3 maybe 5, wales 2?. Other areas? There's not enough spread of top quality bands over all areas. So having the british open, english national new lay out, is your elite sections.
  17. Ali

    Ali Member

    I don't see the problem. Sorry to use the football analogy yet again but there isn't an equal spread of teams from the principalities in the premier league is there? It's all mainly the north west and the south! And if they decided to do a euro league then that spread would be even less. Very much the same as our championship section. Have the top twenty as an elite section using whichever rankings with a two up two down senario at the end of the contesting season. The cream will always float to the top.
  18. JR

    JR Member

    scrap the 1st section before you do anything....

    I agree a shake up is needed. But a further look at an Elite section is not necessary.

    The creation of the 1st section (around 1992 as I remember) may have been welcome at the time; however I do believe it has long outlived it's usefulness.

    In several of the best Areas the standard of 2nd and 1st section bands is vitually indistinguishable

    I would scrap the 1st section after this year and return to 4 sections following a re-grading procedure (awkward I know) - I would also advocate a maximum of 10 bands in the top section and a look at returning to a 2 up 2 down promotion and relegation system - the current "average points" palaver has been with us long enough I think.

    JOhn R
  19. astreet83

    astreet83 Member

    I would leave it as it is.

    I imagine most championship section bands would like the change as it might give them more chance at contests against the bigger bands in the champ section.
  20. Simon Preshom

    Simon Preshom Member

    Please back up this claim with something of substance.