Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by its_jon, Aug 18, 2009.
is it allowed to post MP3's of tunes you create yourself ?
I don't see a problem. Copyright is only infringed if you redistribute somebody else's material - either a piece of music or a recording. If it is a piece of music written by you and performed by you, then you are in control and can do what you like.
Your "Here Come the Girls" might not be legal if you haven't got copyright permission.
Surely there is only a copyright issue if you offer an arrangement for sale ?
As a MP3 rendering of an arrangement its not as if it could be dumped into sibelius and printed out.
My word... it must have been close to the original eyh !
I can understand if there is any issues TMP will want to be on the safe side and keep away from direct links to media.
Here is a link to my homepage
Try reading the copyright FAQ:
All together now.......Oh yes there is!
To make an arrangement without prior consent is treading on very thin ice indeed. Even if you offer it up for nowt. Why not apply for permission then flog it?
whoops....Im knocking one of these out a week just for fun.
I read this below though:-
So... If I am doing this for educational purposes (to try to get better at it) then it would appear to be ok ? How else does one educate oneself to arrange for brass other than by practical means ?
Anyone seen http://wikifonia.org/ ?
It is a grey area I'll admit. If you are worried about it, stick to arranging works by composers out of copyright. There are a couple of beauties recently come into the public domain - Gershwin and Ravel. Should keep you going for a while!
By following lessons at an official school. That's what "educational purpose" means...
No I hadn't. Did you read http://wikifonia.org/terms ?
What about home education...... ? I may be housebound ? Or unable to pursue full time or even part time education due to geographic or financial limitations ?
If I were to sing the song and put it onto You Tube - That is also breaking the law. ?
I guess that in order to seek publishing right you must first have something to publish... I had not thought about seeking out a publisher (its just a hobby for me) but if that is what has to be done in order to display a PC performing some number crunching of a MP3 so be it.
Had it been an original work, I would possibly have thought about it... but cheese like this ! ?
I guess its just too easy nowadays. The Wizardry is wide open, anyone can have a go.... hence the heavy duty thumb screws by the music industry. Or even 'commercial' education !
A bit like Salmon poaching. Salmon was the food of the pauper....
It only became 'poaching' because of the greedy wishing to become richer.
No.... I didd'nt mean /terms I had read the terms but it all sounded fair to me.... No mention that you had to take a degree course in order to use the resource either.
The lead sheets offer ANYONE access to the melody and chord structure.... A great head start for anyone out there. As the sheets can be downloaded in MXL format they will load instantly into a notation typesetter .... I don't believe Sibelius will accept them....but .sib is old hat nowadays
I think its Great ! .... that the wikifonia resource exists. Its FREE
I'd suggest reading this part . It's illegal to take someone else's intellectual property, create a lead sheet from it and then to host it on Wikifonia without the permission of the copyright holder(s).
As ever, though, they attempt to disclaim responsibility in the T&C and the page to which I've linked is their supposed get out clause
By arranging tunes that are already in the public domain. There are literally millions of them. Challenge yourself by taking a simple tune, for example, "Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star" and arranging it in various styles.
Or, even better, create your own melodies, and then arrange them. If you can't come up with a decent original melody, then your career as an arranger will be very, very short, because no matter how good the source material is, the best arrangements contain the arranger's original material.
Stealing someone else's work (which is what you are doing when you violate copyright) is a poor way to learn.
I arranged- Frere Jacques
Frere Jacques Variations
Starts off coy and childish.... goes through several styles ending up with a star wars style fanfare ending after arpeggioing through some key sigs.
No pride in arranging cheese.... Certainly would not want to make a career doing it !.... Vinter !!! He was the man !
Its sad though if you can't even appreciate someone elses work for fear of the music police. What I popped online was nothing more than an elaborate whistle. I often whistle a tune.
Certainly I agree that the best arrangements are not arrangements at all but Compositions in their own right. However 'Swing-a-long-a-brass' medley guff I personally don't rate.
As for stealing someone elses work.... its only trechnically theft when money is concearned..... The resulting arrangement is still plagerisim and mearly novelty weather permission is granted or not.
The ability to truly 'compose' original work is very rare. Some of todays most prolific arrangers release the odd 'original' work which more often than not is based on either traditional folk tunes or so similar to something else it should really be seen as a very near copy. I really can't see the pride in that.
Having said that .... some truly stunning original works for brass band out there. We need more.
Having said all that .... Goff Richards did all right.
Now.... here I take issue... 'Here Come the Girls'
I bought the record (so I have already payed my share to the artist and publishers)
I liked it so much I decided to study it.
This is exactly the same as taking an art class and replicating an artists style. The painting is already payed for... your simply doning your own take on it, learning as you go. As long as you dont sell it and try to pass it of as the same thing, where is the harm ?
I once had an art teacher who said....'dont copy' do your own thing. ..... utter rubbish. Before you can be so up yourself that you believe you can play god on day one it is wise to take in as many influences as you can... to attempt to replicate something great is one of the best ways to learn.
You contradict yourself though...
To copy - 'Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star' would be a poor way to learn (according to your points) as you are copying (or stealing) someone elses work. That fact that its 'traditional' and out of copyright should not make a hoot of difference it was/is still somebody elses interlectual creation and an original composition/melody.
Twinkle little star or the sugerbabes its still the same thing....copying. If you dont pass it off as your own music or attempt to sell either what's the problem ? I could learn as much from copying either ? its all educational.
Hmm... I may well put the Frere Jacques Variations on my web page as well just to prove im not been cantankerous.
Unfortunately, copyright law does not work this way. Purchasing the album, single etc, does not permit you to arrange a song/tune/melody just because you own a recording. Legally, you are not allowed to even put pen to paper to begin to arrange a work that is in copyright without expressed permission from the copyright owners.
It does not matter if it is for recreational, educational, not for profit, or professional purposes. Even if the arrangement never sees the light of day, if it is an arrangement of a copyrighted work, it is an infringement of copyright and therefore, against the law.
Your arrangement of "Hear Come The Girls", albeit, recorded electronically, is still an arrangement and in posting it on the Internet for all to hear, is a direct infringement of copyright law, unless you have written permission from the copyright owners.
You can take issue all you want, and you can create whatever justifications you want to salve your conscience: the bottom line is, what you're doing is a copyright violation. PERIOD.
You can study a copyrighted work all you want you want, but the minute you publish the results of your "study," regardless of the format and regardless of whether or not you charge for your "study," you've violated the copyright.
Oh well..... in the light of the red tape
I respectfully request that the link be removed to my website from this thread..... whilst I also remove the offending site in question.
Back to my hole.
I know my place now.
Can I still whistle these tunes though ?
not in public without filling in a PRS return!
Indeed it is - and I like many do it every week at football matches - Singing "There's only one (insert name here)" is an unauthorised arrangement of "Guantanamera" - the writer of that died in 1979 so there's a while to go until it becomes public domain.
Separate names with a comma.