POLL: "Cheating" at contests

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by nethers, Mar 18, 2010.

?

At contest I think bands should...

  1. Do whatever they can get away with to win

    77 vote(s)
    43.3%
  2. Moving parts around is ok, but not changing instruments, adding mutes etc

    49 vote(s)
    27.5%
  3. Stick faithfully to the scoring etc of the music

    27 vote(s)
    15.2%
  4. Stop worrying and get to the bar :)

    60 vote(s)
    33.7%
  5. Something different (I have posted below!)

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Alyn James

    Alyn James Member

    Messages:
    891
    That's cheatin'.....:)
     
  2. nethers

    nethers Active Member

    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Lol - and I NEVER lol!
     
  3. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    Messages:
    1,455
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    i agree with all 4??!!

    nothing wrong moving parts but at the same time if you don't play whats written i.e tempos, style etc you aint gonna get in the prizes??!!
     
  4. brassintheed

    brassintheed Member

    Messages:
    536
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Would like to vote Nethers, but I don't agree with blanket rules such as this (as per the other thread). In the 4th section, all rules should apply, in the championship section none should lol
    Sorry I'm not straightforwartd :)
     
  5. Getzonica

    Getzonica Active Member

    Messages:
    1,097
    Location:
    Near portsmouth
    I don't think you should really cheat....You wouldn't (or shouldn't) cheat in the Olympics, for example, so why cheat in a brass band contest?
     
  6. Alyn James

    Alyn James Member

    Messages:
    891
    Is it really cheating or just creative teamwork?
     
  7. katieeuph

    katieeuph Member

    Messages:
    236
    Location:
    Wales
    I'm now a little confused - how on earth is it cheating if it's not against the rules?
     
  8. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Location:
    Leeds - Yorkshire - UK
    Now that is a very good point.

    - Mr Wilx
     
  9. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,568
    Location:
    Oxford
    How? Why? Don't quite follow your train of thought here.
     
  10. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    Messages:
    1,396
    Location:
    Norfolk
    If a voter can select more than one choice and, for example, votes for "Do whatever they can get away with to win" and "Stick faithfully to the scoring etc of the music", just because they can, it makes the figures rather meaningless. Or are we relying on everyone to be 'honest' and only select one option.

    As things stand at the moment 43.56% of votes agree with "Do whatever they can get away with to win" and 77.92% disagree. As a mathematical simpleton, that doesn't make any sense to me.
     
  11. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    Messages:
    1,455
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    I only cheat fairly
     
  12. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,568
    Location:
    Oxford
    You can't say that the total of the other categories equals the amount that disagree with the one that you've selected. The fact that you can choose more than one category invalidates that logical step.
     
  13. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    Messages:
    1,396
    Location:
    Norfolk
  14. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,568
    Location:
    Oxford
    No...

    What we have:
    A number of voters (currently 166). A division of the votes cast for each category (currently totalling 201). A division of the number of voters that have voted for each category (currently totalling 129.07%).

    The discrepancy between the number of voters and the number of votes cast is explained by the ability to vote for more than one option, the options not being mutually exclusive. This does look a little odd, as four of the options are pretty much mutually exclusive, with the "go to bar" option being a bit different - presumably this was the option that suggested that more than one option should be selectable. However, it does make logical sense due to containing at least one option that can reasonably be used in combination with others.

    What the fact that the percentage totals more than 100% tells us is that slightly more than 1 vote in 5 has been in addition to a first vote.

    Where's the difficulty?
     
  15. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    Messages:
    1,396
    Location:
    Norfolk
    If more than one option can be selected, does that mean two, three, four or even all five of the options can be selected? It cannot be presumed that only "go to the bar" plus one other option can be selected. What is there to stop "Do whatever" and "Stick faithfully" from being selected? Just because it wouldn't make sense doesn't mean that someone wouldn't do it, even if only to screw to results. Your logic only makes sense if all the voters behave logically, and there is certainly no guarantee of that.
     
  16. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,568
    Location:
    Oxford
    I haven't presumed that only a maximum of two options can be selected.

    There's no guarantee that a single vote will be cast logically either, come to that.
     
  17. nethers

    nethers Active Member

    Messages:
    740
    Location:
    Brisbane, Australia
    Cheers MD, that summed it up much quicker than I was about to!

    In fact, my logic was to allow people to split a vote - if they believe that they sit between a and b they could vote for both if they felt the need... maybe a bit pointless, but then I didn't put any great amount of thought in to things, my bad. There is still a lot going on in the main thread, maybe this vote could be run again (with lessons learnt) when that has wound down and has everyone has had their rant.

    The point remains that in a lot of serious statistical work 'select more than one answer' is fine, even with fairly exclusive answers. It isn't used much in the media though because people get confused and upset if the numbers don't easily add up to 100.
     
  18. 2ndcornets

    2ndcornets New Member

    Messages:
    11
    Location:
    Yorkshire Dales
    Maybe the poll should have included boxes to include some of the devices the Leyburn Band Conductor has used to score at contests; standing regular players down and shipping in pals from higher grade bands, drowning most of the playing errors out with a huge percussion sound, and, this week, persuading an adjudicator to allow a huge over-run without consulting the Secretary/Organiser of the competition. I guess you can tell I am one of the boring "stick to the rules" players. Wouldn't it be fairer to everyone if the musical lowlife who engage in sharp practice were just disqualified on the spot ?.
     
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