Pointless Regionals

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by WhatSharp?, Oct 10, 2008.

  1. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    Taken from 4barsrest
    How are adjudicators supposed to "place" 20+ bands? do they just pick them out of a hat?, surely the point of point ( no pun intended ) is to apply some measurement based on criteria, without that it just boils down to who the adjudicator likes the sound of irrespective of technical merit....I thought we were try to get rid of the "lottery" scenario, not make it worse!

    I'd be interested to hear what the adjudicators have to say about this!

    ( please note.. this has a much bigger effect on lower sections, hence the "oh but it works for the masters" bears no water, theres no up or down )
  2. Aurora771

    Aurora771 Member

    Do you happen to know whether this will apply to all Regional areas? Dunno if I like the idea of a pointless system.

    Why can't they just leave things as they are? *sigh*
  3. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    I would assume so.
  4. Aurora771

    Aurora771 Member

    Would be nice if SBBA turned round and said, 'Nawwww!' Um, not likely to happen though. :-?
  5. tubaloopy

    tubaloopy Member

    Adjudicators will still use a points system to place bands, but it will now not be made public, thats all. Untwist your knickers.
  6. tat

    tat Member

    Are points actually award when the each band has played or at the end of the contest? I would thinks its the latter, so are they really necessary? I think not.
  7. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    I don't see it really mattering one way or the other, points will be used privately to dermine all the placings, so we won't know exactly what we got! No big deal.
  8. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Got to say Steve I can't quite see how it affects the promotion / relegation issue. Your points in the grading table are based on your placement at the area.

    So if your placement is based on points awarded or based on a deaf man sticking pins into the names of the bands he likes, your placement is still the same!
  9. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I'm inclined to agree with tat and the chunkmeister, because I suspect most adjudicators either worry about places first then allocate the points later, or just use the points to remind themselves what band they want to place where.

    Points are meaningless imo - wether you're looking at rankings, gradings or prizes - it doesn't matter if band x beat band y by 1 point or 10 points, the only thing that really matters is that they were placed higher.
  10. Is there anything better in banding than winning a contest by several points though?

    That feeling that you were so much better than any other band in the contest?

    I suppose it can work the other way though. There's nothing more demoralising than being so many points off the mark.
  11. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    If you know you're that good, an arbitrary number given by one bloke in a tent shouldn't really make any difference....... and if you were that bad (or robbed ;)), does it really need any more rubbing in?
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2008
  12. BoBo

    BoBo Member

    My theory is that they are hoping to reduce the number of complaints by giving bands as little information as possible.
  13. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    I think your mistaking what I'm saying ( perhaps I should have been clearer ):

    - Are adjudicators now being told not to award points ( whether publicly or privately )? and if so how do they go about the process of guaging one band against all the others?

    - I know points don't affect your promotion / relegation, however your position does and if that becomes even more subject to the personal whims and fancies of one person due to the removal of the system of measuring then we are in for a load more "dodgy results" syndrome.

    I appreciate that whether you know your points or not is irrelevant ( though sometimes useful to know how far behind you are or how far ahead ... ) .

    Perhaps the announcement by Kapitol was badly worded and should have said "Bands will no longer be told their points"....
  14. tubaloopy

    tubaloopy Member

    Are you for real?
    Can you please tell me the standard "system of measuring"?
    Points are awarded to separate the bands, no other reason.
  15. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I really don't think it will have any effect on the end result at all.
    Very few adjudicators follow a strict system for points allocation/calculation anyway - and the ones who do that still can, they just won't publish the numbers. There's almost as many different methods for allocating points/sorting the bands as there are different adjudicators!

    I don't care how an individual adjudicator arrives at the end result tbh, I'd be much more concerned with whether the right number of people are in the 'box' to start with, and their competence to judge the rest of us.
  16. WhatSharp?

    WhatSharp? Active Member

    Granted, but at least at the moment when they get to band 33 they don't have to think "so was that better or worse than band number 1?" or do they not allocate points until the end?

    Totally agree on that one, but we ( as in the bands ) are usually ignored on that as well ( along with "can we please have a decent venue rather than a sports hall with all the acoustic qualities and atmosphere of a cargo container.. :D )
  17. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    The only exception to this being that published points can show tied positions whereas publishing placings may not. That in turn doesn't affect prizes but might affect promotion and relegation.
  18. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I've talked to a few adjudicators about this, read articles etc etc... and most of them seem to compare each band with what had gone before (eg. band no. 3 was better than no. 1 but worse than no. 2; then band 4 was better than 3 etc etc....) and keep adjusting the order of merit as they go along - in which case the points can only be awarded after everyone's played anyway.

    The only 'true' points system I've heard of is the Trinity exam style: bands in a given section can be allocated a max of x points, with breakdown of a points for tuning, b for technique, c for interpretation.... adjudicators can still use that system if they want to, we just wouldn't get to see the actual points at the end.

    The really dodgy one though is the adjudicators who decide after each band which placing it deserves, so you could end up with a situation where a very good performance halfway through the day is declared the winner, and a better band at the end of the draw only ends up with 5th place because thats the only slot left. Scary, but true!

    And fwiw, they've done the places-not-points thing for a while now in the British Open system, which also has promotions and relegations, and its no more or less fair than before.
  19. Bungle

    Bungle Member

    I wonder if its to stop people comparing bands from different regions in the same section and suggesting a certain region should have more qualifiers based on the points awarded, when in fact there were different adjudicators.:dunno
  20. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    :clap::clap: Well said that man! always got my back up when it was mentioned that one region was "weaker" than another cos of the way the points were allocated! Different adjudicators have different ways, and until all regions are on the same day with the same adjudicators (yes I know it's impossible) then people are always gonna try and pull that old chestnut!:mad:

Share This Page