Pointless beurocracy unfair on students?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by el_blasto, Mar 18, 2009.

  1. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    I, like many other students, commute every so often between my hometown and uni. I probably do this less often than many students, who often split hometown/uni time 50-50 throughout the year.

    Is it fair, then, that current regulations restrict students from taking part in contests when they're spending time at their hometown? It becomes even more difficult should they join a higher section band at university, too. Surely we should be encouraging younger people to take part in contests, as opposed to restricting their involvement with these stupid rules?

    If we're going to stick with all this registration rubbish, I for one would propose a system where on production of a valid NUS card students could register with two bands, one within a certain proximity of their hometown, and one their uni town.

    We must be the only musical movement with rules in place that discourage people from taking part.
  2. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Couldn't agree more, and it's one of the many things wrong with the farce that is registration. I just don't see the point! One option which could work is that players registered as "Student Players" can be borrowed by their home band without it counting towards the limits on borrowed players. However, I'm more and more convinced that registration is an archaic waste of time. I honestly don't see what purpose it serves?

    Plus - and I've made this point before - do they actually check identities at the registry? What, in practice, is to prevent a player from registering with two bands under different names?
  3. HannahLouise

    HannahLouise Member

    I TOTALLY agree with you. I myself am in this situation. I've just played in the area up here in Nottingham with Carlton, but as I'm home for 6 weeks over christmas, would like to rehearse and play at Butlins with my home band. So unless i keep un-registering and re-registering every year, it's not going to make it possible.

    It's a ridiculous rule that discourages students from contests.

    What can we do to tackle it though?
  4. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Looking at things objectively (since I have no stake in any contest), a registration system is essential. If there were no registration, then the number of people participating would probably decrease dramatically, as the more desired players took seats in multiple bands.

    Here's a scenario:
    A student lives in the LSC region and attends university in Yorkshire. The student is registered with a band in both regions. When the Areas come up, the contests for these two regions happen to be on different weekends. What would prevent that student from competing with both registered bands at their respective Area contests?
  5. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    So true. The whole idea is archaic, and it doesn't prevent bands from getting in "ringers" for the day anyway.

    As a member of a lower section band, I almost find it offensive that we cannot borrow from the section above us. I know of plenty of people who play in the lower sections that could walk into a top section band, and plenty of people who play in higher section bands who are playing at too high a level. Whilst a higher section is something to aspire to, it does not determine the ability of a band's players.
  6. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    Entry would be limited to one band per player. Also the players who do that would be of the "mercenary" ilk (not that I'm criticising that), so aren't as depended on by their bands, anyway.
  7. HannahLouise

    HannahLouise Member

    Well it probably wouldn't be feasible (or affordable) for the student to rehearse fully with both bands up to the area, but I could see that it may happen. But couldn't this be another rule that students can only play in one contest at a time, or just be more easily borrowed by their home/uni band even if one is a higher section?
  8. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    Inform them of our views, although I can't see anything being done.
  9. HannahLouise

    HannahLouise Member

    Mmm.... I know someone on the committee, I'll see what he thinks. Maybe a petition?
  10. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    Why not? Sounds like a plan.
  11. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    And how would that be enforced? And whether they are "mercenary" or not, they would still be taking a seat that another person would have taken, thereby reducing the total number of people participating.
  12. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    There has been is similar thread and question posted fairly recently and (about 4 months ago I think) and as mention n that particular thread, I'm was one of the very few who thinks its a bad idea.:D
  13. JTKBrass

    JTKBrass Member

    This very situation has just been covered by new rules in Scotland, allowing students to register with one band during term time, and another when they're at home, without the restrictions of the current registration rules. A SBBA subcommittee looked at the problem, spoke to bands and players, came up with a solution, presented it to the member bands and had it adopted recently. I know it doesn't help you out at the moment, but i'm sure that change, plus others, recently put in place (and some still to be implemented) up here will eventually filter down south of the border.

    As 4br said - "Left alone they get on with things in a manner that leaves the rest of the regions in the UK behind: The Scottish Open and Youth Championships for instance, the amazingly effective work of its Development Office Alan Edmond, its continuing dialogue with its member bands over rules and grading."
  14. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member

    Surely part of going away to colledge/uni is learning to grow up and make decisions - like do I want to play with a band where I am studying OR my home town band?

    It's life, get on with it.

    I would like to play for more than one band but the rules say that I can't, so I make a choice.
  15. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Nothing. Why is that such a terrible thing? I know of several bands in our region who might have attended the area contest if there had been a bit more "slack" in the registration rules. And when Cory can effectively "borrow" a non-UK player, Bert van Thienen, who having helped them to European qualification will almost certainly be playing for a different band at the European, the whole paperwork exercise starts to seem a bit pointless. That's not a dig at Cory, I know of many other bands who have used overseas players, perfectly within the rules, rather than have to borrow/sign a UK player.

    If a band were really determined to "cheat" and put an unregistered (or falsely registered) player on the stage, I can't see how they could be stopped. At the recent NW areas for instance, between registration and the stage there were a number of places where the band waited, unsupervised, in areas accessible to the public. It would have been easy to swap jackets/instruments with an unregistered player waiting in one of these areas AFTER registration but BEFORE taking the stage. Similarly, if I registered with another band in a different part of the UK using an older photo and a false name, how would anyone know? It would be perfectly easy to do this and play at a different area each week.

    Certainly in the lower sections, banding now needs to be investigating every way of keeping bands going and keeping bums on seats - registration just seems to make life difficult without offering any advantages that I can see.
  16. HannahLouise

    HannahLouise Member

    I did have to make a choice that would benefit my playing as a music degree student. But (although I'm not complaining) over the summer and especially christmas in the lead up to Butlins, I'm at home for a long period of time. But if i'm still registered at Uni, I can't help out home band if they need me, yet the band up at Uni don't want me because I've been at home for all the rehearsals.
  17. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    Could be enforced easily enough, with a new registry system that allows for a player to go on stage with one band only, like it is now, but instead of now, it can be a band of their choosing. This system could be more easily cheated, but would any M.D be willing to risk the humiliation of disqualification just to get another dep in? I think not.

    Anyway, which sad git would be willing to sit in on a band in every section? Whilst a band full of "ringers" can sometimes be annoying to come across, they are belittling their own achievement by doing so, and more often than not put on a naff performance due to poor balance and no sense of camaraderie. Let said sad git play for all 80 bands at the regional if he wants, he'll only be mocked back at the bar.
  18. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Of course, if both bands are in the same section, then for the Areas they'd be playing the same test piece, so the rehearsal issue would be mitigated to an extent in that case.

    Your proposed rules would work, but probably only if the student were required to declare in advance which band they were with for a particular contest, with enough time for the contest management to determine if a duplication had occurred.
  19. el_blasto

    el_blasto Member

    Maybe us students aren't the ones who need to grow up, if the tone of your post is anything to go by.

    I would like to participate in contests all year round, as opposed to only some of the year. Also, as depressing as this may be, I am getting on with my life, and enjoying it very much, thanks.
  20. HannahLouise

    HannahLouise Member

    I'm not saying get rid of registration. I do think its an important part of it, I just think the rules need to be readdressed for students and borrowing etc.

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