Paddy's West of England Area - 2013

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Paddy Flower, Oct 22, 2012.

  1. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,269
    Location:
    West Sussex
    If you disbarred people from adjudicating any band they've ever had any sort of connection with, there wouldn't be anyone left to go into the box.
    I think this is a total non-issue tbh; and I would guess that he, the regional committee and a majority from the competing bands all think so too otherwise he wouldn't have been booked/wouldn't have accepted, and someone would have made a fuss a lot sooner than 2 days before the contest...

    (and yes, you're wrong about the LSC thing last year too, imho - why even drag that up a year later on a thread about a different region?!)
     
  2. tromguy3

    tromguy3 New Member

    Messages:
    24
    HI,

    I only just read it and thought..hmmmm...:) I agree that many bands will be connected true enough..but I guess if it was over 7/8 years ago then things and people will have moved on? Would it be the same for a judge who, lets say, was asked to leave a band then the following year had to judge that area where they were playing...how would that sit?
    Just looked at last years London area and yes, I thought I could remember rumblings or something going on about FR and him involved as chairman of a Friary Band - only brought it up as I thought it was relevant to the point i was making about judges being to familier with the bands in the area.
    Sorry Alex if I upset you old chap not intended :)
     
  3. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    Messages:
    1,606
    Location:
    Hinckley, Leicestershire
    I recall Steven Mead having his reputation traduced in similar fashion at a contest a few years ago. You appear to be suggesting that Mr Baker might be able to identify his old band despite being cooped up in a box. Alan Morrison, to name just one adjudicator, has assured us that he and his colleagues cannot in fact identify bands by sound alone, so there's absolutely nothing to worry about. Otherwise, why bother having the box in the first place?

    And just to be clear, I AM playing devil's advocate here!
     
  4. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Messages:
    3,269
    Location:
    West Sussex
    tromguy3 - I'm not upset, I'm not a chap and Frank Renton has never been involved with Friary beyond us hiring him to take a few rehearsals well over a year before the contest in question (incidently something that over half the other bands in our section had also done, and many more recently). I don't see any point in going over old ground and discussing this (non)issue any further, especially not in this thread - wrong region, wrong year - so lets just leave it there eh.

    To answer your more general question, I believe every case has to be taken on its own merits and at times there may be an issue if an adjudicator/conductor has worked with a band very recently; but at the end of the day if the competing bands are happy with the committee's decision (which the WoE apparently are judging by the lack of complaints/questions), and the adjudicator himself doesn't think there's an issue, then that's good enough for me. I've heard those comments from Alan Morrison and other judges too, and in 30+ years of contesting I've never come across a good reason to doubt them.
     
  5. johnflugel

    johnflugel Active Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Location:
    Leeds
    It's the assumption from some that judges are bothered about knowing which band is on stage that annoys me. I have only had one or two experiences judging 'blind' and I could honestly say the furthest thing from my mind was wondering which band is on stage. It just wasn't of interest, you just judge what you hear. Simple as that!
     
  6. weenie

    weenie Member

    Messages:
    347
    I think you'll find that Brett has had links in the past with Lydbrook Band too (as well as other bands in the WoE of late). In fact, Brett spent less time at Flowers than any of his other bands, he's been at Dyke for 13 years! So to say that it's unfair advantage to certain bands is rubbish. Brett is a professional who I think will do a good job at this years area.
     
  7. All4Brass

    All4Brass Member

    Messages:
    94
  8. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    Messages:
    2,172
    A mate of mine is helping out a band in the 4th section. I asked him how it's going and his reply made me laugh. "With a bit of luck, and not too many cock ups, we might scrape into last place." :)
     
  9. Pauli Walnuts

    Pauli Walnuts Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    730
    Location:
    Brighton, UK
    If it was Watford Town Hall that's hardly "not long ago"! We have had a 2 moves since those days!
     
  10. cockaigne

    cockaigne Member

    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    Kirklees, West Yorkshire

    Hence closed adjudication, for one thing. The ears do not lie; the eyes can fool us into thinking we're hearing something better. I've heard renowned bands give some pretty ropey performances at Whit Friday - and even with net curtains in place, the adjudicators surely know it's a "name" playing because of all the reverent shushing that goes on before they play.

    Brett Baker has links with bands all over the country in one way or another. Whilst at Flowers he did a lot of work coaching young players in and around Gloucestershire (of which I was one - that's how long ago this was!) and still does. Doesn't mean to say he'd recognise a band by sound alone.

    Equally, Frank Renton clearly didn't recognise my virtuoso 2nd trombone playing in the top section at Stevenage last year, or he'd have put us much higher up.

    Obviously, since I used to play under an adjudicator who will be judging the band I'm conducting at Stevenage this year, he will know what my band sounds like, so we're bound to do well...

    All of the above VERY firmly tongue-in-cheek! :)

    If you want further proof of the redness of this herring, bear in mind that Bob Childs has been working a lot with Dyke lately, so must surely know their sound - yet where were they at Bradford?
     
  11. simonium

    simonium Member

    Messages:
    597
    Location:
    Hayle
    But the good Doctor wasn't adjudicating Black Dyke was he? As far as I'm aware it was Rob Wiffen and Nigel Boddice. There might have been mileage in that other scenario....
     
  12. BassBlaster

    BassBlaster Member

    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    Stroud, Glos
    Looking forward to Romany Jones full English Breakfast Sunday morning followed by rehearsal and an awesome performance of Harmony music, I love this banding thingy.
     
  13. Chris Hicks

    Chris Hicks Member

    Messages:
    643
    Location:
    Clevedon
    Brett's helped out more recently at woodfalls then he has at flowers, and bob conducts dyke and is taking woodfalls, but Brett is a complete proffessional, and the notion he would fix results because of potential ties is utter rubbish and a total non-starter
     
  14. Laserbeam bass

    Laserbeam bass Active Member

    Messages:
    2,175
    Location:
    The engine room
    Amen to that Bass Brother. I do not profess to know of the Romany Jones breakfast, but the idea is sound. Good luck with the beast that is Harmony Music.
     
  15. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    Messages:
    284
    Location:
    Never Never Land
    I believe Brett Baker played with Flowers Band earlier this year! Only weeks before this area contest one can only wonder about the ethics of this.
     
  16. BassBlaster

    BassBlaster Member

    Messages:
    297
    Location:
    Stroud, Glos
    The beast maybe tamed, or it may ravage all bands :) as for Romany Jones, the toast is great, the full English a treat.
     
  17. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,547
    Location:
    Oxford
    Picked out your quote John, but it's far from the only quote I'm replying to.

    I can't say that this kind of stuff would worry me unduly were I playing in the same section. Any adjudicator stupid enough to show favouritism in their results will soon find themselves no longer an adjudicator. Sometimes we really do worry about things that do not need to be worried about.
     
  18. tromguy3

    tromguy3 New Member

    Messages:
    24
    Hello David,

    yes players do worry..rightly so in my opinion. I do think that collusion will and does happen, maybe not at every level, but it's there. And I'm also 100% in thinking and saying that those judges are still judging...just my thoughts
     
  19. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,547
    Location:
    Oxford
    It would be interesting to know your examples, because I have never seen or heard of anything of the sort. I can understand why you wouldn't want to post them in the open thread - send me a PM if you want.
     
  20. markh

    markh Member

    Messages:
    105
    Location:
    Maidstone
    Firstly, I always trust adjudicators honesty - even if I don't always trust their ears ;-)
    I have heard of stories of attempted collusion, where conductors who are friends with the adjudicator try everything to let them know what own choice piece they were playing, but the fact that I heard this from an adjudicator about a friend of his makes me trust the system.

    I also believe that adjudicators don't care who is on stage, but I can't believe that they can't tell the sound over the years of some of our finest soloists - I know I can tell the difference from a CD by David Childs/David Thornton/Steve Mead playing the same solo and I don't have the ear to be an adjudicator. I'm sure many people over the years could have picked out messrs McCann, Jeans, Childs (senior). But a judges career depends on his ability to judge well, not spot his friends performance.
     
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice