Paddy's February Poll

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Paddy Flower, Jan 30, 2010.


Should pre-qualified bands be included in my Regionals odds?

Poll closed Mar 1, 2010.
  1. Yes

    34 vote(s)
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
  1. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    I'm of the opinion that pre-qualified bands don't go to their areas with the same level of intensity as they would have if they had to qualify - and so therefore I don't include them in my odds.

    In my Yorkshire Area thread YRBBC argues that i SHOULD include the pre-qualifying bands as they have pride at stake (you may wish to read our exchange before voting).

    So, there it is, should I include Cory, Fodens, Dyke & Rothwell in my area odds for 2010. YES or NO

    Deadline 28th February
  2. Mr_Euniverse

    Mr_Euniverse Member

    Well for Wales then it's a yes.

    The Welsh representation for the European Championships is up for grabs from the Welsh area contest.
  3. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    OK, good point
  4. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    Much as I'd like to think Fodens will take their foot off the gas for Blackpool in March (where I'll be ruining Wingates' chances on the back row), it seems pretty unlikely. There are bragging rights at stake. I would imagine the same goes for Yorkshire, I can't imagine Dyke or Rothwell actually wanting to lose their area contest to (for example) B&R or Grimethorpe, even with qualification already in the bag.

    Even if they do, their presence will surely still have an influence on the contest and therefore the book, presumably. Unless you're purely running a book on "who will qualify" as opposed to "who will win", they have to be included. If you reckon they're not going to go there in top gear, can't you take this into account when setting odds in the same way as pre-contest form?
  5. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    It's starting to look like a yes and i'm sort of coming around to the idea. I still maintain that the bands don't go there with the real WMD

    (Incidentally, this post should IN NO WAY been seen as a shameless attempt to get the thread back to the top - perish the thought...)
  6. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    Now including Cory.

    I suspect Fodens, Dyke & Rothwell will follow soon
  7. Laserbeam bass

    Laserbeam bass Active Member

    Wuss :tongue:
  8. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    It's a 3-1 YES vote at the moment, majority rules. But I am making allowances based on the records of these bands in the past where qualy isn't at stake.

    Cory is a special case thou, can't dent that

    btw, 328 people have viewed this thread but only 28 votes, wos-all-dat-abat-den?
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  9. 2nd man down

    2nd man down Moderator Staff Member

    Yes they should. Makes for a more interesting game if nothing else.
  10. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Hmmm. I can only speak for yorkshire, but a lot depends on the circumstances.

    Black Dyke's 13th place finish in 2003 (?) on 'Prague' being the perfect example.... but I guess it was pretty difficult to get motivated for that one.... And they did get a lot of stick for it at the time.

    This year on a cracker of a test-piece, I'd expect both barrels from everyone.
  11. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Sorry, but perhaps I'm a bit thick or old fashioned (don't answer that!). I always thought that the only band who pre-qualified for the RAH was the previous year's winner, who had a bye to the final. Everybody else had to go to the Areas and take their chances.

    Could somebody tell me when this changed and why?

    (I'm not having a laugh, I genuinely don't understand this :confused:)
  12. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    I don't know when it changed, Duncan, but I think it's the top three now, not just the winners.
  13. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    I understood the "why" to be basically to allow areas with a higher proportion of top bands - i.e. NW and Yorks - to send extra bands to the finals, and thereby improve the overall standard of bands competing. The complaint used to be heard that "lesser" bands from regions like North or L&SC were going, while "better" bands in Yorks and NW languished at home having finished 3rd to (for example) Dyke and Grimey, or Fodens and Leyland.

    I would have thought it better to allow an extra qualification place to areas whose bands finish in the top 3 at the finals, rather than an automatic prequalification for the following year's finals, but maybe that's just me.
  14. Paddy Flower

    Paddy Flower Active Member

    Paddy dons the anorak and prepares for his little history lesson.

    It came about in 1997 when the decision was made to invite the top FOUR from the Albert Hall every year on the previso that they attend their area qualifyer (this was to keep the Regional committees happy that there big guns were gonna be at the area every year - particularly Yorkshire who would regularly miss one or two of their big beasts thru automatic qual).

    The first benefactors were Brighouse (who came 7th at there area the following year), Faireys and Fodens (2nd & 1st respectively @ NW) and Kirkintilloch (5th @ Scot)

    The rules haven't changed since.

    Paddy's solution? Well, since you ask...

    EVERY band regardless of their finishing position @ London should have to qualify again the following year. For each band your area has in the top 4, you get an extra qualifying spot. That would mean this year, 4 from Yorks (Dyke & Rothwell NOT automatically Invited), 3 from NW (Fodens fighting as well) & Wales (Cory again fighting), 2 from everywhere else.

    The Football World Cup changed recently so that the champions had to qualify for the next tournament so why not Brass Bands? If they're that good, they'll get back (especially with FOUR spots up for grabs at Bradford). Hell, even the FA Cup winners have to go in the hat with the other 64 for the 3rd Round draw.

    Here endth the rant
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2010
  15. E flat fred

    E flat fred Member

    an excellent explanation. Food for thought for the committees. Let us hope they do not eat too much and make a decision if it is upto them or perhaps it woul;d be upto Kapitol as they are the sponsors of the event,.