OK - Educate me

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Mister 4x4, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. Mister 4x4

    Mister 4x4 Member

    In the picture below, the horn in between the 2 Euphoniums - is it a proper Baritone Horn, or something else?

    It's been bugging me. When I bought it from eBay, the seller didn't know what it was. And when I played it, it seemed like a Bb instrument to me, not an Eb or otherwise. I was always told that the bent-bell horns I played growing up were Baritone Horns... but the more I read, the more I'm convinced they were Euphoniums as well.

    Someone please tell me what it is - I'm pretty sure I sold a really nice Baritone Horn to a friend... and I should've kept it instead.


    By the way - that's El Cheapo on the right, and a borrowed Yamaha YEP-321 from the university on the left
  2. michellegarbutt

    michellegarbutt Supporting Member

    can't see anything
  3. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    It won't let me see anything either, sorry
  4. Mister 4x4

    Mister 4x4 Member

    <sigh> I know. As pointed out in another thread - apparently, I'm having server issues at home. But I'm pretty sure I know what's going on (I believe I forgot to open the ports on the router after a complete reload) - so I'll have it fixed up later this evening.

    Sorry to waste your time, people.
  5. Di

    Di Active Member

    No worries Eric. If you need any help, just give one of us a shout. :)
  6. Mister 4x4

    Mister 4x4 Member

    OK - should be fixed now.
  7. euphfanhan

    euphfanhan Member

    Looks like a baritone. I think. Instruments that size always confuse me though :confused: Big baritone, small euph? Think its a baritone because of the tuning slides. Does it have a fourth valve?
  8. Mister 4x4

    Mister 4x4 Member

    No fourth valve.

    Again, I'm thinking it's an actual Baritone... although I'm American after all... and we're not as up-to-speed on these things. :D
  9. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

  10. Mister 4x4

    Mister 4x4 Member

    Actually, I only had the horn over the weekend - the guy who agreed to buy it with my crappy old case picked it up a few days later. The whole deal is that I was after that horn for the nice ABS Yamaha-ish case... but when it showed up is was quite a bit smaller than my Euph... so no workie (eBay pictures didn't offer much in the way of 'scale' and no description). I originally figured it for an Eb horn... but it seemed to blow Bb and sounded just like my Euph, only a little brighter.

    Other than that - I didn't spend much time at all with it... but oddly enough - now I really miss it. :D
  11. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    Definitely not a horn. Almost certainly looks like a Baritone.
  12. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - it's a difficult one to call with just a photograph. The American manufacturers haven't helped if David Werden is accurate in his research ...

    "While most agree on the names of my particular instruments, such is not the case with the instruments in many of our public school bands in the USA. They are similar to the Conns (mentioned above), and generally have a .560 bore and forward-facing bells of about 10.5 inches diameter (although many are made with upright bells as well). Even a casual examination of the tubing will show that it is almost entirely conical. I believe the breed was originally designed to let a single instrument play both euphonium and baritone music. While the early samples of this type of "hybrid" instrument may have had a sound nearly centered between a baritone and a euphonium tone, the desire for a smoother, fuller sound has led the manufacturers to gradually change the instrument’s characteristics. The modern version have a sound very close to that of the European and Japanese euphoniums. They sound slightly brighter, but not nearly as bright as a true baritone horn. Also, compared to my own horns, their .560 bore is somewhat closer to the .592 euphonium than to the .522 baritone bore."
  13. Baritonedeaf

    Baritonedeaf Member

    I would say that is as close to a Baritone as you are likely to get in the US unless you import one...

    The tuning slide is in a traditional place for a number of traditional instruments and the bell flare matches a modern British baritone I am certain - especially compared to the Euphs...

    There is always doubt though...

    You need to import yourself a Besson Sovereign (One of the old ones with teh woirld symbol on - that would turn a few heads in the US...) - so get saving those pennies!

  14. Baritonedeaf

    Baritonedeaf Member

    Sorry cents!

    Also traditonal for a traditional? What am i on about!

    Traditional = common on older instruments - BEFORE compensation was common...
  15. Mister 4x4

    Mister 4x4 Member

    Naw - we call them pennies here too. Actually, we really call them 'useless' anymore.

    Thanks for the lessons, folks. Next time, I'll be more alert.
  16. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    As Brassneck alluded to, this is a difference in US and rest of the world terminology.

    A baritone in the US is almost synonomous with a euphonium. Those marching band, front baritones are really a hybrid instrument.

    A proper British baritone (as it looks like is in the picture) has a smaller bore size than a euph. I think Brassneck gave the right specs on it.
  17. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    Just out of interest, why would any band want a baritone to sound like a euphonium? There's precious little difference in tone colour in a brass band as compared to orchestra/military band etc, so why take one of the colours away? Oddly enough for someone who doesn't play one, I like baritones. You can write them together with the horns, euphs, or trombones and their sound fits nicely whichever way. Wouldn't making them euph-like would spoil the balance of the lower band?
  18. Baritonedeaf

    Baritonedeaf Member

    Baritones rule! :D
  19. DublinBass

    DublinBass Supporting Member

    I think the idea may have been that there are a gazillion different instruments in a wind band because of all the wood winds, so the brass all sounds the same pretty much anyways...right? So we'll just have trumpets cover the high stuff, french horns the middle, baritones cover the lower bits and tubas be the bottom...and oh yeah...we'll add some trombones 'cause they seem kinda cool.

    I mean when you already have 6 different clarinet parts who can be bothered to write a separate flugel part and a separte baritone/ euphonium part!!

    (this is all written in jest, but may unfortunatley be they way wind banders thought at one point in time)
  20. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    A lot of wind bands or "symphonic bands" over here also have a flugel player, especially the bands in the highest sections, and a lot of the test pieces for these sections require a flugel horn...
    Also, most of our wind bands use euphoniums, no baritones

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