Official tMP West of England Regional 2008 thread

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Di, Feb 17, 2008.

  1. Gig

    Gig Member

    Nice one Andy

    Back to 11 in the top section, this always causes problems with relegation with only 1 bad result and an average one carried forward, say and 11 and a 5, usually means the band has to get into the top 4 to stay up. Not easy in the W-o-E.

    Best of luck in Harrogate to all the bands that qualified
  2. Sop_Or_Bass?

    Sop_Or_Bass? Member

    I take it that Launceston (30 points) and Weston (30.5 points) are saved the drop then with no relegations from the Third Section this year. Bendix (also 30.5 points) I assume are out following their merger with Bristol East.

    So will the third section will have 16 bands in it next year?
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2008
  3. jasdrum

    jasdrum New Member

    Updated Tables for Promotion/Relegation


    I have spoken with our regional area secretary Brian, who has confirmed that the council meet a week today and the tables will be published the following week.
  4. WagTheStick

    WagTheStick Member

    Just for fun have a look at some of the holy than thou posts telling the WoE to stop whining - then compare with posts from the same people when they are unhappy with the result in their Area ...............very interesting;)
  5. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    Interesting Gig says there are no relegations from 3rd section. Did he make this decision? We are not aware of this decision, especially as it looks like we are in the 4th section for another year even though we recently beat this years 3rd section Regional Champions. Have the lowest average in the 4th section for the last two years, but thats the rules. Still maybe there is an outside chance that we might have another avenue to get promoted???
  6. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Then come over and tell us how we're doing it wrong! ;)

    Seriously, 'holier than thou' was never my intention personally in this thread; it just seemed that a bit of perspective could help members of a certain awesome band stop digging their band enthusiastically into a hole of ever-increasing size... And it did, no?
    Nothing anywhere near approaching the sourness that was promising to result here has exploded in the London thread. It's about drawing lines - a little whinge doesn't hurt, a big one does...
  7. Sop_Or_Bass?

    Sop_Or_Bass? Member

    That was DaveTheHorny (on page 21 currently) who, I understand, is on the WoE committee.

    I guess we await the gradings following next weekend's showdown as Jasdrum has advised.

    I think we should have bigger sections further up (some have depleted due to bands folding/stopping contesting). I was with Tewkesbury when they were one of the six bands, including Bream, came out of the Third Section a few years ago; six bands on the same 2 sets of largest points, and despite appeal, this decision interestingly wasn't taken then. However, that was then and this is now- not sure what the trigger was this year though:confused: .

    It has then taken Bream to be in the top 4 for 3 years in a row to then get promoted (thank heavens :clap:), so you will have to wait a while unless you do wonders at the Nationals, which I hope you do - that'll make 17 in the Third next year if so.

    Which band are you from as it's difficult to tell from your profile with no signature?

  8. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    Can't see why bands struggling at the bottom of third section should automatically stay up, when on form bands in the 4th section will be kept down. Doesn't seem to make sense. Why keep a band in a section when it is consistently at the bottom of a section a not able to cope musically at that level. Brunel Brass beat Verwood and Gillingham in December to win the Wessex 2nd Section at 1st attempt, surely this is an indication of standards. Still lets wait and see what our masters say and do. Guessed the band yet!!
  9. bignige

    bignige Member

    Congratulations on your win. The gradings will always cause difficulties as these are based on the one contest result each year over three years and new bands or bands that are relegated to the 4th section will always suffer due to the size of the section. Other contests have no bearing on promotion or relegation issues

    It seems that the WoE Committee have decided not to relegate this year to ease the pressure on the fourth section. As DavetheHorny explained this was the only option as they are unable to promote more bands under the National Grading Rules.

    Hopefully you can have a good crack at the National Finals, win the fourth section and get promotion that way.

    See you in Harrogate - good luck.
  10. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    Still don't see any sense in keeping a band in a section if it is consistently at the bottom end and struggling at that level. Why keep all three bands up in the third section. If they want to regulate the numbers in each section then they should set a criteria that will enhance each section and not be stuck within the barriers of an out of date system. Moving with the times and be flexible would seem to be the order of the day. 'But rules is rules'
  11. Mesmerist

    Mesmerist Well-Known Member

    Ophicliede I may be wrong but isn`t Brunel a new band made up of mostly ex Swindon players (that was 1st section)? Isn`t there some rule that allows a band clearly in the wrong section to appeal and be regraded?
  12. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    No Mesmerist you are incorrect. Yes Brunel Brass is a new band made up from eighteen teenagers, some local adults who had retired from playing competitively, five adult players from another local band. Hardly a band made up of mostly ex Swindon players that was 1st section. Thirteen of the teenagers are my pupils with an average age of 15. The star player Paul Richards on Soprano has come out of retirement to be a regular player in the band and a positive role model to the youngsters. All of the youngsters are (18 of them don't forget that) players with the Great Western Youth Band. We will be loosing three of the band before Harrogate (principal euphonium, principal bass and principal percussion) but we will survive. We rehearse once a week on a Thursday night from 7.45 to 9.30 please feel free to come along to a rehearsal. The members of the band work hard and given sound professional musical guidance. So no we are not an old band under a new name. Yes we have some talented players, young and old I am proud of that and we make it fun not a chore.
  13. grandad

    grandad Member

    [Brunel Brass beat Verwood and Gillingham in December to win the Wessex 2nd Section at 1st attempt, surely this is an indication of standards. Still lets wait and see what our masters say and do. Guessed the band yet!![/quote]

    I once passed a Ferrari in my skoda .. does that mean my car is better?;)
  14. ophicliede

    ophicliede Member

    Time for bed grandad, we both need our beauty sleep! See you in Harrogate or Weston super Mare?
  15. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Steady on chap, while that's a valid quotation, it's not a very polite one. Besides, if that Skoda passed that Ferrari in a race, then the answer to your question at that time would certainly be yes. You might have dug yourself into a hole there... :)
  16. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Maybe I've misunderstood something here, or not heard some other bit of information that you all have?

    It seems to me from quotes like this that the proposed solution is to not relegate any 3rd section bands while also promoting the usual number of 4th section bands. This would mean that John and his band go up as per normal if they are at the top of the 4th section gradings. Is this wrong?
  17. Sop_Or_Bass?

    Sop_Or_Bass? Member

    As well as their win, they also have 2 years average results as a new band so may well end up another 2 years in the 4th Section unless they win at Harrogate, or due to other results next year end up with either of the lowest number of aggregate points to be promoted then - This is assuming that they are going to win, as I think they must be expecting. The rules are there to avoid/protect bands being promoted or relegated on a freak win or loss (which I am in no way implying with regards Brunel). The sections are geared up for consistency over a 2-3 year period, but do allow for a win at the Nationals to override this.

    Good luck at Harrogate, Brunel, and hope to see you in the Third next year...
  18. Gig

    Gig Member

    This year we were told no bands from the third section were going to be relegated.

    This has nothing to do with bands being promoted from the fourth. This how the rules wer read by the WoE comittee. Two bands are still being promoted from the fourth section with a possible third if they win in Harrogate.

    Them's the rules, and I play for a fourth section band in the WoE who have been there or there abouts for years trying to get into the third section and missing it by a few points each time.

    If Brunel are thinking of appealling please get in touch as we would back your appeal.
  19. QAD

    QAD Member

    In my opinion, the number of bands promoted/relegated from a section should be a representative number from that section. so three bands should go up from the fourth, two come down from the third. Also any bands that have not competed for three years should be replaced by another promotion from the lower division. This would, over time, level out the sections.
    The problem is that this would need a change of rules at a national level
  20. WagTheStick

    WagTheStick Member

    'holier than thou' was perhaps a bit strong - I just happened to read one thread after the other and thought it quite funny:D. Some of the stats stuff was enthraling though;)

    As an aside I agree with the stop whinging sentiment and I commented myself about 10 pages ago but gave up. As I said yesterday to a friend who conducted in the 1st section in London "if you can't take a joke don't go contesting!"

    Someone has identified the real problem on the L&SC thread though - everything hinges on this one performance, its mad when you think about it. Its no wonder everyone is so passionate.

    I think we also need to make adjudicating more attractive in order to attract the new generation of conductors (and area committees need to give new blood a shot!) Brass banding has moved on in leaps and bounds in the last ten years - just listen to a 70s recordi

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