Not often a brass band makes the front page of a paper...

Discussion in 'The Auditorium - Concert Details' started by bigcol, Feb 21, 2014.

  1. bigcol

    bigcol Member

    Now the Police band has pulled out (sensible) and the Durham Miners Band have got the gig. The very organisation who started a Facebook campaign to remove the Police band.

    Make your own conclusions.
     
  2. GordonH

    GordonH Member

    I was working in Durham at the end of the miners strike and I remember my friend having to clean blood out of the back of his Mini van after a miners head was forced through the back door window by a police officer after some miners were chased through the car park.


    Its understandable why people still feel upset. My first wife was from a mining family and had three brothers who had 1. Stayed out the whole time 2. Gone back after a year or so 3. Left mining and become a tunneller during the strike. Every Hogmanay there was a fight between them at my mother in laws and that was ten years after the strike.
     
  3. I waited to see what others had to say before posting a response to the above.

    I am not sure that it is beneficial to forget that nothing of note has been done to investigate the alleged lack of Police integrity, and the apparent collusion in it of government and others for whom propriety and fairness should be – and are held out as being - paramount. Don’t forget that, for one thing, it appears strongly that trumped-up charges were brought against miners, and that the Assistant Chief Constable commanding at Orgreave repeatedly lied in court to try to convict them, while concealing video footage that proved him to be lying. Was he brought to book? Apparently not; and what is certain is that he was decorated by the Queen for “distinguished service” during that strike.

    If the authorities have set out to harm someone or his or her reputation, then of course I sympathise with such a person or persons; but sympathy is not my main point. Questions of dishonesty and malpractice among those in authority should be of concern to all, whether directly involved or not. If the woman who fought for so long to get to the bottom of police behaviour at and surrounding Hillsborough had quietly gone away, then what good would have that done?

    I really do suggest trying to understand how it might feel. A band with “police” in its name clearly isn’t going to be acceptable to people on the end of actual or apparent police malpractice, regardless of the backgrounds of its players. You do still come over as seeing this as right versus wrong, Dave; i.e. right just to let it go now, and wrong to raise any objection to a move such as hiring that band. Neither you nor anyone else is in a position to say when and if people facing such grievances should "move on".
     
  4. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    It appears that an assumption has been made here that I am advocating forgetting this. Not so; I never advocate forgetting anything - what has happened does not unhappen even when amends are made. I have merely pointed out that there always comes a time after any conflict when it makes pragmatic sense to cease bearing grudges. I have acknowledged that now may not yet be the time in this case, while also pointing out that it will be a good thing for all concerned when that time arrives. The current debate serves as an interesting marker for where wider sentiment lies on the question. Forgetfulness, forgiveness, and the cooling of emotional response with time are all interrelated concepts with roles to play in this.

    What you write about the accountability of the police is good sense and I thoroughly agree with it. I'd applaud convictions for police thuggery 30 years on from any event.

    I'm not sure why you think I don't have empathy with those who objected. Their feelings and the reasons for them are very clear, and you don't have to have been there to understand why people still care about the problems raised then deeply today. For sure, were I in that position, I would raise my eyebrows high indeed at the hiring of a band with "Constabulary" in its name. I would then make some enquiries, and having ascertained that there was no police connection beyond the name (is this still an open question? Assuming there is no connection, anyhow...), would conclude that objecting would not be in anyone's best interests, and that rising above it would be the most sensible option. If I were to lobby for any change, I would agitate for the band to perform under a different name. As has been pointed out above, there seem to have been sound reasons behind the hiring, i.e. that contesting bands were unavailable. On that subject, the timing of the production does seem very careless - we (near Oxford) had a recent enquiry from somewhere staging it well into the Midlands not long ago, for a time near the area, which we obviously couldn't take up - presumably all the Midlands bands had already declined on similar grounds.

    I have not and will not 'say when and if people facing such grievances should "move on"'. I've been careful to do no such thing. I do try to precisely phrase my sentiments such that there is no need to read between the lines. I'm sure I don't always succeed, but I do try.
     
  5. Reading that last post of yours was certainly reassuring, Dave.
     
  6. boourns

    boourns Member

    Whilst I have no doubt there were frequent transgressions by the police, it should be remembered the violence was not a one way street. The police too were subject to vicious attacks, and were not in a position to choose whether they put themselves in harm's way or not. I think you'll also find that on an personal level there was some sympathy within the police for the plight of the miners, but again, they were doing their job.

    This thread is in danger of tarring 'The Police' with a very broad brush.
     
  7. iffytboner

    iffytboner Member

    Last day of the show in York today. I hope that the other bands that are doing it around the country have as much fun as we have.

    I actually feel sorry for those ready made bands that are doing it. Half of the fun has been because it is a scratch band and we got to meet new friends

    Iain
     
  8. glidng_slide

    glidng_slide Member

  9. glidng_slide

    glidng_slide Member

    whatever happened 30 years ago happened, as a musician all I am here for is to blow my own trumpet, if no one is interested in listening to it then I may as well stick it on ebay or put it in the local wastetip, either way after years of supporting bands in the area, attending the miners gala for over 20 years, I saw performing on stage in this production as a once in a lifetime experience, sadly this was taken away from me by keyboard warriors and liars still stuck in the 80s.
     
  10. I can see how disappointing that would be. You will see, though, hopefully anyway, that even a former miner wronged in the '80s could equally sympathise, yet find a band with "police" included in its name unacceptable.

    You'd have to give details for that to mean anything.

    ... possibly - and apparently - for very good reasons. It is not for any of us to tell them how they must feel.

    I state again that I have no mining connections, or any personal or group-allegiances of any kind here.

    If there are no police in the band, then perhaps a name-change is in order.
     
  11. iffytboner

    iffytboner Member

    I really sympathise with you on that but if you read my post below then you should have an idea of people's feelings. My personal feelings are not that strong but I can easily understand why some are. particularly those with family connections

    BTW, you seem to play for Murton Colliery?

    Iain
     
  12. glidng_slide

    glidng_slide Member

    yes for 15 years, apologies for not updating my profile on here.
     
  13. glidng_slide

    glidng_slide Member

    From one musician to another I acknowledge your support on this
     
  14. Well, I sympathise with you for the loss of the chance to play, and I said so (but not in the post that you have quoted). However, to be a brass bander doesn't make it obligatory to dismiss others considerations. To quote a letter to a newspaper from someone who might well collect Margaret Thatcher teatowels and crockery does nothing to settle it in favour of dismissing others', apparently well-founded, grievances.
     
  15. glidng_slide

    glidng_slide Member

    I'm certainly not dismissing anyone's opinions, this should have been worthy of some debate, however when threats of picketing venues putting the show and band at risk, it was a step too far
     
  16. iffytboner

    iffytboner Member

    I'm sure that the tour producer (nice chap and a musician too) would love to have had the time to enter into debate about it. Unfortunately, the issue was raised only 3 weeks before the show was due to open in Darlington and a debate could have meant no band and no show
     

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