New Geneva Bb Cornets

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Ron Lander, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    Just wondering if any of you good people have bought or tried the new Geneva Symphony and/or Cardinal cornets? What are your thoughts? Would you buy one? Going to try both tomorrow myself along with other makes. Any opinions greatly appreciated.
     
  2. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Well-Known Member

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    Reputable instruments so should be in the running. I'm sure if you're trying several makes, the right cornet will find you.
     
  3. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    Asking because they seems quite a bit underpriced compared to the competition, eg, Wilson, Stomvi, Besson spring to mind here. I know production Genevas where handed out to some UK bands for testing. Hopefully a member or two of those bands frequent this site.
     
  4. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

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    1,993
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    What else are you trying?
    Where are you going to try them?

    :)
     
  5. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    Wilson 530 for sure plus the above mentioned.
    Shop is Rosehill instruments.
    As you know Tom my main instrument is a Stomvi Sop. But I am playing Bb at a contest this month and maybe another on Bb in March and I dont want to spend another £3500!
     
  6. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Well-Known Member

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    323
    Rosehill have a very good choice and allow plenty of time to play and decide without watching over you in the upstairs room.
     
    Ron Lander likes this.
  7. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

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    1,993
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Why the main tuning slide?

    Most players I know either don't have them or don't use them, and the mechanisms on pretty much all of them seem to be really unreliable.
     
  8. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    I tend to go sharp on high notes when lips are getting tired. But, maybe I don’t need one. Not been back playing long enough yet to gain full stamina. It certainly opens up many options not having one.

    I also need to work more on supporting the air with better posture. But thats a different story.
     
  9. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

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    1,993
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Tending to go a bit sharp up high (especially on tired chops) is exactly what you'd expect (going flat on the other hand is not good) - as you say, stamina will come with practice.

    Some posture issues are very easily fixed, some take a bit more conscious effort (as with so many things, though, trying to correct too many at once often ends up with things getting forgotten).... Try this, for example - stand in front of the mirror and go to play a note, obviously you'll bring the instrument to you but do you also move your head forward towards the instrument?

    What Bb cornet are you playing at the moment?
     
  10. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    Thanks Tom, I am using the series of books by Claude Gordon to help with breathing, posture etc and I think they are excellent. Problem arises when you go to a rehersal and immediatly forget what you spent all week doing in practise.

    Currently playing one of the very first production B&H Soveriegns which I bought new in the early 1970s.
     
  11. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

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    1,993
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Practice at home is "habit building" - the more ingrained the habits you build at home become, the more they'll manifest at band (and elsewhere).

    The CG books are good - there are so many great books out there it's hard to know where to start, but the CG stuff will do very nicely :)

    Nowt wrong with a good old "Roundstamp", if well looked after they'll still keep up with most you can buy today... but the very best of now are excellent too.

    I presume you'll be taking your own cornet with you?
    If you decide you like something, it makes sense to be able to A-B it with yours - something you know well is always a very useful benchmark.
     
  12. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    Yes taking my cornet to part ex it. But a very good point you make about using it to compare.

    Doing A bit of internet reasearch on reviews leads me to think the Yamaha will suit me so shall make sure I try that along with the other makes. They also have a very nice top of the range S/H Wilson if I can stretch to it.
     
  13. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    In case we have any lurkers. Back from the shop. Tried pretty much everything including three Genevas. Maybe down to my mouthpiece which is narrow with a narrow throat (its a custom made Stork 7D) but the Genevas and Besson where eliminated quickly. Loved the laquered Yamaha Neo, until I tried two Wilsons. Close call between a new 421 and a like new but S/H 450SG large bore. They were just easier to blow than the Neo and sounded a tiny bit fuller. Went for the 450 for no particular reason. Many thanks to Rosehill Instruments. Paul is top man with great staff. My shop of choice.
     
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  14. Hsop

    Hsop Member

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    79
    Glad you found a cornet that's right for what you wanted. Willson are an excellent instrument maker that are not in the limelight as much as some of the other brands. I have a Willson flugelhorn that is superb although I don't have the chance to use it that often. Let us know how you are finding the willson cornet after you have had more time on it.
     
    Ron Lander likes this.
  15. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    No problems so far with the cornet, except tuning is sharp using the highly rated metal straight mutes from Denis Wick/Hopkins which are sharp even with the corks filed right down. Probably the large bore cornet is causing the problem. I have been using my old Humes and Berg fibre mute which works fine after much cork filing. A JoRal metal mute, which has a longer taper than the other metal mutes is arriving this coming week. Hopefully that can be made to work. Any helpful tips appreciated.

    I suspect I should have got a set of Peter Gane mutes.
     
  16. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,993
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    To be honest, I don't like Wick mutes generally - but the intonation is usually passable (they're the standard choice right the way up to top section - they wouldn't be if the tuning was off).

    Is it definitely sharp? (According to a tuner with you not looking)

    It could be a fit issue I suppose, but you don't want to file the corks any more than you have to - if they're too large, the low F# (lowest non-pedal note on the cornet) won't "slot" properly, you should file them enough to get the F# to come out properly and NO MORE. Beyond that any filing will be counterproductive.

    IF you really have to, playing that G on valves 1+2 will give you a flatter/less-sharp G (the valves bring the open Bb harmonic down to a G - and that Bb harmonic is generally a very flat one).
     
  17. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

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    37
    I should get the JoRal hopefully by Tuesday and will see how I get on with that. I am using a tuner. I will also see what mutes are in the bands mute box and borrow a few to try at home.

    Did not have this problem with my Sovereign,
     
  18. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,993
    Location:
    Gloucestershire
    Its the mute-bell matchup that matters - where the corks sat right on the Sovereign might not necessarily be the same on your Willson... might take a little experimentation to get it right.

    Either way, see how the JoRal goes :)
     
  19. Hsop

    Hsop Member

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    79
    Ron

    Glad you are getting on well with the Willson cornet. Does it have a main tuning slide trigger? That will make life easier when certain notes go sharp whilst using any mutes. I have a J0-ral straight mute copper version which works well. I find the Denis wick adjustable cup mutes are quite good especially when you want to decrease volume by bringing the cup section closer to the bell. I like the humes & berg mutes too, especially one called a Mannie Klein practice mute.
     
  20. Ron Lander

    Ron Lander Member

    Messages:
    37
    Hi Hsop,

    No main trigger slide. The JoRal has not arrived yet. I got the Bb cornet and the sop Hopkins straight copper bottomed mutes and the sop one was in tune out of the box. Bb one is useless for me! Its still very sharp with the corks filed almost all the way down. If it is filed any further the mute flare will be touching the cornet bell and thus totally restricting the sound. I got the Dennis wick adjustable cup mutes for Bb and sop.

    Found this! Trumpet (tunable) Straight Mute
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
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