Music programs in general.

Discussion in 'Computer Corner' started by Cornet Nev., Sep 16, 2008.

  1. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Personally, I don't think that to "not condone" it is a strong enough statement. It's nothing to do with moral high ground or ethics, it's theft, pure and simple. Moreover, despite the usual arguments offered by illegal users to the effect that "it doesn't hurt anyone, and these big companies can afford it, etc., etc., ..." the fact is that I have to pay more for my yearly upgrade in order to cover for the company's lost revenue due to illegal software. Such activities are to be condemned outright.
  2. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Just to contextualise that a bit, some of these 'big companies' aren't, in the grand scheme of things, that big at all....

    (sorry if the quote seems out of place Gareth, it's only as it's part of the counterargument we've all heard before and you said it first ;) )
  3. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    No, I understand perfectly.;)
  4. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Me too, Gareth. I was simply stating a point.
  5. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    You get what you pay for with these things and you need to assess your needs before you buy. My biggest problem is usually deciding where I'll be (and the equipment) in 2 or 3 (or whenever) years time when it comes time to upgrade. I don't hink people should use pirate software. It deprives the main user base of new software as it drives the prices up and reduces the amount that can be spent on r&d. People who complain about the high prices are usually the ones who complain about being ripped off, when they are the ones ripping off the companies big style. It's very hypocritical really - just another evidence of the general decline of moral standards.
  6. Cornet Nev.

    Cornet Nev. Member

    In general I dislike the the copyright laws, but that is only because the way they have been hijacked by the truly big companies, it is that very thing that encourages some to pirate copy, especially music in general as well as DVD and other video. However when those laws are being used fairly I do not support or condone piracy, for as has been mentioned it only forces up the price to the genuine buyer. I also know of pirated copies of either Sibelius or Finale are available, but in most cases, they cannot be registered, so there is the risk of being found and prosecuted for their use, plus the obvious lack of any technical support.
    The cost may be high if you need the full version of Finale, but they do cheaper cut down versions such as print music, and even the free Notepad. Depends on what you need, but at least if you buy the proper legal copy you are able to rest easy.
  7. nadband

    nadband Member

    It all depends what you want to do. For high end work then buy Sibelius or Finale. If not look at the alternatives, Mozart does fine for wind band arrangements and class pieces but I wouldn't use it for professional typesetting (though it is improving leaps and bounds). I haven't used lilypond yet on linux but will do at some point,its free and very powerful but like a lot of linux software it has a learning curve to it. I have seen pirate copies of sibelius floating around my students over the years and I don't condone it at all but it is part of the world we live in sadly.
    And just for the record Notepad is no longer free, it costs a tenner to download it so there is as far as I know any free windows typesetting software. A shame as I was going to get my pupils to use it. :-(
  8. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    You mean they can't afford a tenner? I bet they spend more than that on Wii games.
  9. MarkGillatt

    MarkGillatt Member

    Excuse me whilst I put my Two penneth in here.

    I can understand that the writers of Sibelius and Finale wish to be paid for their efforts, but why to the tune of £500? I mean, Sibelius and Finale is a tool that people use to create music, so, we actually provide the content, they provide the tool. Now, you can buy a computer game for £30 which has taken years to develop, program and test, and all the content is provided for you, all you do is interact. The price i suspect is so low because they want as many people as possible to purchase that game. Now translate that to Sibelius, all it is at it's most basic level, is a bunch of fonts, and midi commands, but the first copy I bought cost me just short of £600, the computer it ran on only cost me £400 brand new! Their R&D can't be that extensive as the newer versions have only minor tweaks and enhancements, and their testing can't be that exhaustive, as we have all discovered bugs and errors. Surely if they dropped the price, the program would fly off the shelf a bit quicker, more people would use it, more people would then become aware of it and so on.

    And I won't even get started on the copyrights issue. Trying to get the big companies to agree to using one of their songs to produce a brass band arrangement is nigh on impossible.
  10. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    Computer games have totally different economies of scale to professional applications like Sibelius and Finale. Computer games will sell millions worldwide, but music notation packages are aimed at a tiny niche market in comparison. I'm not a user of either, but to put some context into the prices here (and talking about something I do know a little more about) you have to spend £800 on a single licence of Computer Aided Design software before you get anything worth spending any time on at all. Better stuff with more functionality costs much more - you're up to about £5k a seat for mid-range stuff like Inventor and if you go to the really highend programs like Catia and Unigraphics you'd be spending 10's of thousands per seat. OK some of these programs have huge amounts of functionality, but given that CAD software is being sold to all sorts of Engineering, Product Design, Archtectural companies worldwide (again a much bigger market than Sibelius and Finale) the comparison still stands.

    Also because you are creating something with programs like this they have to be more thoroughly tested (as there is no "flow" through them like a game - you can do pretty much anything at any time) and the chances are they are being used for their end users to make money - so it seems fair enough to me that there is a slight premium on the price.
  11. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    Mark: I totally disagree. Like Ian says, the economics of a utility program like Sibelius and a game like doom (or whatever) is utterly different. The user base is a small and highly self-selected group of users, where games are played (and bought and pirated) by millions of people.

    As for copyright, your issue is with the big companies, not with the actual composers of the music. I agree that, unless you are a well-known name, you are unlikely to get permission. You just have to accept that and move on. Ripping off the little guy won't affect the big multinationals one bit! If they won't let you use one of theirs, write one of your own.
  12. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

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