Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Bbmad, Mar 8, 2015.
Yorkshire Areas 2015 Championship.
Did anyone expect that result?
You have to feel sorry for Rothwell, sandwiched between 4 bands who go to London and they don't.
Indeed, it a strange system. Also seems odd that the best overall instrumentalist, a cornet player did not win the prize for the best cornet player??
Well, the winner is not such a surprise: when you look at their three, and even their four, year aggregate, Carlton are the best band in Yorkshire
That is probably true. Had 4 Bars Rest foxed and #regs2015 on twitter certainly has some raised eyebrows.
Granted, 4BR didn't call the winner, but they had the top five identified. I also seem to recall that the pundit in the hall said that Kirsty Abbotts was so good that she might have tipped it in Carlton's favour. Which brings me to your other point. How could she be the best instrumentalist but not be the best cornet?
I was wondering this myself last night while watching the awards come out one by one on the Twitter feed.
"Best Soloist: Michael Dodd, Euphonium, Grimethorpe"
Okay, that's the best instrumentalist out of the way, let's see the placings now...
"Best Instrumentalist: Kirsty Abbotts, Cornet, Carlton Main"
So that's pretty odd. What's the difference between Best Soloist and Best Instrumentalist? Still, on to the placings...
"Best Cornet: Iain Culross, Grimethorpe"
Grimey were class and clear winners for me, Frickley were very musical and deserve their place at london, Brighouse bought in a band again and proved you can't beat a settled team and the dogs just are'nt as good as some people would have you believe.
Brighouse didn't buy in a band actually. We had one Eb bass and repiano cornet that aren't full time members. Both of these positions are filled commencing at first rehearsal back on Thursday.
Far be it for me to stick up for Black Dyke but winning the nationals and Open in one year and performing 40-50 concerts all over the country makes them a pretty good band in my eyes!
Congratulations to all the 13 bands who competed I say.
Sorry my bad, it looked like most of the cornet section and most of the bass section from where I was sitting. Please accept my apologies.
PS. I never said Dyke were not a good band just not as good as some would have you believe.
Congratulations to the cornet dep that was playing sop parts.
That's quite a statement to make!
It is is quite a statement to make and quite a sensible one too.
4barsrest for example would have you believe that Black Dyke would win, going as far to say in their prediction that they are so good that "everyone else could be playing for second place." Well, on that analysis I could barely believe it when they didn't win.
Always embarassing for the anonymous trolls to be stymied by truth isn't it.
Hi 'Marc' nice to see you again, as always you have provided a valuable contribution and insight to the topic at hand.
I have done some research, here are the 4br predictions for the last 4 years;
2015; 1. Dyke 2. Grimethorpe 3. BR
2014; 1. Grimethorpe 2. Dyke 3. BR
2013; 1. Dyke 2. BR 3. Grimethorpe
2012; 1. Dyke 2. Br 3. Grimethorpe
2011; 1. BR 2. Dyke 3. Grimethorpe
In zero of those contests have all three bands finished in the top three.
I wonder if in 2016 4BR might show some journalistic imagination and give the other bands the credit they deserve?
This was also discussed on Facebook, but I don't think it is quite as illogical as it appears at first.
As to the distinction between best soloist and best instrumentalist, I would presume the latter refers to the player's overall contribution to the performance, rather than in specific solo passages. Once the best instrumentalist has been settled on, it's a question of considering the other prizes on offer, which vary greatly from one area to another (there are similar anomalies at Brass in Concert, but these are less noticeable because of the greater number of awards on offer).
It makes sense to me to share out the awards between three players, even though a case could be made for Kirsty to win in all three categories.
I'm not sure that your response clarifies matters much, Peter. There are still two things that I'm confused about:
1. according to the people in the hall, Kirsty Abbotts' performance was breathtaking, and she rightly won best instrumentalist, so, why not best soloist? It was surely her solos that caught people's attention and not her contribution to the all-round ensemble performance, I should imagine. Nobody would really be able to separate a particular person's performance from an ensemble effort; if it was possible, then why doesn't a 2nd trombone or 1st horn ever win it for their superb ensemble playing?
2. in deciding upon the recipients of each award, then, following your explanation, I can just (just!) about accept that a best soloist and best instrumentalist might be two different players, but how on God's green Earth can Abbotts not have won best cornet player? Iain Culross must have been a bit bemused to win it.
I don't agree with sharing the prizes out: this is not a kids' sports day. The Yorkshire Areas is arguably the very top level of banding (on a par, perhaps, with the Open) so, there is no need to mollycoddle these players.
I wonder if the situation arose due to different prizes being endowed at different times? I can't imagine that somebody sat down to design that individual prize layout.
If I were running the contest, I'd think about relabelling them as "Best Cornet", "Best Euphonium", and "Best not-a-cornet-or-a-euphonium" (or "Best Trombone", "Best Horn", "Best Bass Section" etc.).
Anyway, it's not of paramount importance (which is probably why it's been allowed to continue in an obviously confusing way).
No, doubt it wasn't thought through, and you're right, it is not of paramount importance and won't detract from what was obviously one of the most fascinating contests in years, with three of the big hitters being drawn 1, 2, and 3. Nevertheless, it looks odd and it wouldn't take a rocket-scientist to put it right: simply tell the adjudicators to use their noggins when awarding the individual prizes and not to make a complete **** of themselves by making self-contradictory awards.
is a.r.s.e such a bad word?
The most recent prize donated was for the best principal cornet, and it's the biggest cup awarded - larger even than the cup for first place.
Separate names with a comma.