Misplaced "joke"...

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Andy_Euph, Oct 8, 2012.

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  1. mikelyons

    mikelyons Supporting Member

    As to getting more youngsters from ethnic backgrounds into banding. The schools are your key. Anyone who knows the Smithills School Band will know that they have relatively large numbers of ethnic players, but they are still young. Barriers for these children to banding - very obvious - the music of their various cultures is quite different form the tonic-dominant harmony of the West. Even now, for most of these youngsters, their home life is saturated with non-western music (no cowboys and Indians! - before Butler says it!) Even the 'pop' music is based around Bollywood and Bhangra. I have no idea how we can incorporate this music into bands. A the moment, there is no "Beatles-style" pop/rock band that is attempting to bridge the gap with experimental mixing of cultures - to the best of my knowledge, so there's no foothold there. I have no idea how appealing Indian ragas would be to 'traditional' western ears either - especially on brass instruments.

    It is a quandry. I have no answers.
  2. Rambo

    Rambo Member

    There is so much labelling and steriotyping going on here, it is truly eye opening. I run a simple rule. I think some bloke mentioned it once in a big book! Treat others as you would expect them to treat me. So if yo are fat, thin, black, white if your ok with me I will be ok with you. This where we then start to struggle though. In my mind, there is no one more dispickable than someone who treats someone differently because of their race low lifes as far as I am concerned. But it would appear that the vast majority of white British posters on here do not have a clear view on racism. It is not a black and white thing, it can be black black, white , white etc. SOme of the narrow mindedness and ignorance on here beggars belief especially from the posters who seem to want this thread to coninue and continue. With regard to the origins of this post. I can see how the comments made by Stan and co can be described as racist, 'Hello Golly' instead of 'Hello Dolly' I would imagine not being too offensive. If then a hat was worn depicting the word then at best it is thoughtless and in bad taste and at worst, those that wish to label could label this as a racist comment.
    What you cant do as some on here have over and over again is label Stan et al. racists. To be described as a racist would in my eyes be similar to being described a bully. To punch someone does not make yo a bully, there needs to be some repetition of the behaviour over time before an action can be described as bullying. So unless anyone can provide evidence that this comment made in bad taste is something that Stan has referred to before then he cannot and should not be described as a racist. In fact I would say some posters on here (sonorous) are sailing very close to the wind in terms of libel.
    I have no link with the band concerned or either individual by the way.
  3. toby hobson

    toby hobson Member

    I have supplied a number of kids to Smithills over the years. Not that many Asian kids however, the main problem I find is many of the hard line Muslim families (primarily from Pakistani backgrounds) have a "rule" about music that kinda says it’s a no no. Added to that, any practice times from those same families are gone because many go to mosque to study the Koran for 2 or 3 hours straight after school. Smithills have probably done more than anyone to try to recruit from families comming from other cultures, but the pool of those Asian players will always be limited to the more westernised families. The Bangra/Bollywood stuff you talk of Mike is a more Indian thing, so off the top of my head it would be Manchester, Leicester, London, Glasgow who would have most of those communities.
  4. steve butler

    steve butler Active Member

    I've been taking a correspondence course on impressing retired bass players with lovely thighs developed to look good in short leather trews.
    I don't know, I crawl out from under my stone after kicking this habit for soooo long, then I take a peep and before you know it I'm involved in one of those epic roundabout threads! Reminds me a little of the 'good' old days of the JonP saga (s)

    We never did get together for that fantasy last hurrah Ian...... I do miss those days of sexually abusing you on the back row at Kip. If only this thread was about inappropriate back row behaviour then it would have been on topic xx
  5. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    You do worry me sometimes Mr B!

    ~ Mr Wilx
  6. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    PS: Steve, when you see some men in white coats coming up your garden path, don't worry. They are your friends and are going to take you to a nice place where you can be with other folk like yourself. Also they have a kind of uniform which is a smart funny looking jacket which has sleeves that wrap right around you. They are all the rage in places like that. You get to live in a nice room with rubber walls and the kind men come around twice a day and beat you with rubber truncheons to make sure you are ok. I will come and see you occasionally through the one way security glass ~ Enjoy !

    Your good friend,

    ~ Mr Wilx


    Not been on here for months....not missed owt by the look of things.
  8. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    Same old same old Stuart ! ~ Though I must say there have been a few grim rants and pedantic finger pointing episodes recently.

    ~ Mr Wilx


    Might make a comeback on here...it s got boring.
  10. iancwilx

    iancwilx Well-Known Member

    Go sic 'em Stuart !

    ~ Mr Wilx
  11. Sonorous

    Sonorous New Member

    I think you need to go back and read the thread again. I haven't seen anyone accuse Stan, or Graham, or the band as racists. The discussion is about the appropriateness of racist 'speak' (eg jokes, comments etc) or the inability to recognise imagery and actions that can be potentiallly be interpreted as offensive or racist. This is a very distinct difference. I need to clarify this as you seem to mention that I am specifically accusing them of being racist. If you read back you'll see on several occasions that i don't believe Stan etc to be racist. I also don't believe that having strong views on race necessarily make you racist in itself. Everyone is entitled to opinion, as long as it's expressed thoughtfully. It's how you use that opinion that marks you as something else (in my view anyway)
  12. DRW

    DRW New Member

  13. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    I beg to differ. From the www.gov.uk web site:

    "Bullying -a definition
    There is no legal definition of bullying.
    However, it’s usually defined as behaviour that is:

    • repeated
    • intended to hurt someone either physically or emotionally
    • often aimed at certain groups, eg because of race, religion, gender or sexual orientation"

    Therefore, single punch or assault would not necessarily equate to bullying. "Bullying" is not, in itself, an offence; the method by which the bullying is inflicted may be.
  14. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Well, thats that cleared up then !
  15. DRW

    DRW New Member

    So, if you applied for a job and didn't get it because of your race and this was the only example of the prospective employer applying that criterion, would you consider them non-racist? I wouldn't.
  16. Sonorous

    Sonorous New Member

    There are two different things being mixed up here I believe:

    1) A single act of bullying (or a single racist act etc): It is perfectly possible to bully someone on a single occasion. As DRW mentioned originally we're not talking about a single punch ( which isn't bullying, it's a single act of violence). But if you intimidate someone's point of view in a meeting to the point that they feel bullied, then this is a single act of bullying. The important point here is that it doesn't necessarily paint you as a bully (or a racist, applying it back to the topic) but, if you're perceived of bullying, then on that occasion you acted in a bullying (or racist) manner.

    2) The label of being a bully (or a racist): I think we all agree that a single offensive act in itself doesn't specifically label you as a bully or a racist. If it's unintentional, then denial means that you may not be aware enough of yourself to stop this happening again in the future. If it's intentional, then you're going to have a hard time persuading someone that you don't harbour bullying or racist tendencies.

    Where it does get complex is the line between intentionally being a bully (racist), or being perceived to act in that manner. In both cases if you repeatedly act in the same way despite being made aware of the problem then I'm afraid you are a bully or a racist (one through maliscious intent, and the other through ignorance)
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2012
  17. The Wherryman

    The Wherryman Active Member

    Is not repeatedly and vigorously asserting one's own views, with a determination to overcome all dissent, regardless of the value of other arguments, a form of bullying?

    I'm outa here :icon_cry:
  18. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Beam me up scotty !
  19. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    No, its called bigotry....and in my experience the sort of people who use the word most are those that are the most guilty of it.
  20. Sonorous

    Sonorous New Member

    That is definitely a fine line. In a debating forum then it can be 'debated' either way. The inference I believe you're giving however may be pushing it a little. If you are in a debating forum and repeatedly receiving replies and ridicules that DON'T add any value whatsoever (you just need to look back at the very interesting post history on this thread of IanRoberts and DannyColin - now these really are potentially examples of attempted bullying) then I think your bullying quip may be a little misguided. And responding in debate to those that do try to debate with at least some intelligent thought and constructive value is simply debating.

    I would hope that GJG, MikeLyons (and all the other posters that I don't always agree with, but have respect for for actually putting their points forward constructively) feel the same way. If they feel that they have been bullied by me then I will be the first to apologise to them. After all you are correct in that it's how these people would perceive my actions that is the more important decider on this.
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