Midlands Regional Championships - 2010

Discussion in '2010 National Championships of Great Britain' started by Di, Feb 15, 2010.

  1. stevetrom

    stevetrom Active Member

    travel is not really that much of an issue now (I commute 130 miles a day for work) so why are the strict geographical rules still in place for bands?

    If a band on the border of 2/3 Areas is willing to move area (if it helps even up the numbers) why not let them?

    You might even get a very ambitious band, frustrated by playing in a huge section, being quite happy to travel a reasonable distance to play in a more realistic contest.
     
  2. stevetrom

    stevetrom Active Member

    alternatively, 24 bands in a section, 4 places at the finals - have 2 contests of 12 bands with 2 going to harrogate !
     
  3. katej

    katej Member

    Just had a look on the mabbc site grading tables.

    17 bands in 1st section, 11 in 2nd section, 17 in 3rd section and 28 in the 4th section.

    4 bands had been removed from the 4th section grading tables as they hadn't competed for 3 years.

    Can they not promote the top 3 or 4 in the 4th section and only demote 2 from the 3rd to even it up within the next couple of years? Rome after all was not built in a day and the top 3 from the 3rd into the 2nd section - not as scary a scheme as promoting 9 bands in one go.........

    And surely if the bands did not think they were ready they could apply to stay down for a year??
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2010
  4. Nice Horn!

    Nice Horn! Member

    Good idea, but the only problem then would be is how they work out the grading tables.

    Promoting more than you are demoting would be a solution and at least, albeit it would take a few years, it would show that they are trying to do something about the situation.
     
  5. David Mann

    David Mann Member

    I can't believe I'm debating in contesting rules and regs, being a convert to non-contesting, but you raise an interesting point: whether you can accurately define whether a band is "4th section" - or any other standard, depending as it does on few performances and potentially huge differences in personnel and test piece / adjudicator / draw / hall from year to year. I tend to the view that the bands section be defined solely by contest results and that the contests and rules about promotion and relegation should be designed and operated to produce sections with numbers that make for a meaningful area contest. It probably would, as you say, weaken the upper sections, but I would prefer that to the imbalance in numbers we have currently.
     
  6. Daveoo

    Daveoo New Member

    I have to say how I agree with so many of these comments on here, There was nothing wrong with the acoustics in the college yesterday as they haven't changed anything in the hall, some of the percussion playing was a little loud, but the biggest thing that struck me was how there were bands that weren't playing together, had poor intonation, and the tempos were nothing like what was written on the score. and I'm sorry but I listened to a few bands and for a band to almost get to the point of stopping to get it back on track, and finish in the top 20!!! is disgraceful.

    I thought that 4th section adjudication was meant to be on the basics, tempo, tuning, playing together, but and I'm sorry to say, from the top 6 I heard 4 and I feel that there were basic elements lacking from the performances, but then Ireland who's percussion was a little loud, sorry Mr K, but they should have in my opinion been in the top 6, not 17th, but it was the same for Whitwell and Dronfield, Good performances, intonation was good, playing together, holding good tempos, and they have been punished, because some jumped up woodwind player thought there were 'bands relegated from the 3rd section who were trying to prove a point' but isn't that what contesting is about, to prove that you are better than others??

    And yes I play for Dronfield, I'm not bitter, I think if they want to degrade contesting to this point then that is down to them, I play and contest because I enjoy playing and contesting, if you win it is a bonus but it is more important to be surrounded by good friend who want to do the samething as me.

    And just on the size of the sections, L&SC has the same problem, but they don't want to do anything about it either, I would be good to spread numbers out more but don't worry cause in the next 5 years another 50-100 bands will have packed up so then the 4th section will be smaller!!!!! Maybe that is what they want, contests would be so much easier to run if it wasn't for ****** bandspersons!!!
     
  7. beccawheeze2

    beccawheeze2 Member

    It's a school, why would it have a bar Elliebone? (My god, I'm sticking up for my workplace! Must take a lie down)
     
  8. marksmith

    marksmith Member

    The Area committee have had to make big decisions in the past and I believe that they will again, if the swell of opinion is to even out the numbers.
    Back in the 80s we had a similar situation and ended up with the North/South Midland Areas - but I would hate to see us divided again in such a radical way.

    I played in the third section on Saturday, and I cannot share the strength of 'anti-feeling' towards the hall.
    It is a school for goodness sake - and for a school hall, it is wonderful! (A lot of contests are held in school halls of lesser quality!)
    It is large, has all the necessary spaces to accommodate bands pre and post playing - and as Dave Mann says, you could park outside!
    I couldn't give a hoots about bar/cafe facilities, though both were more easily available than in Burton. (I might open a sandwich/tea stall outside next year, as some people seem to miss Burton so much).
    As for the hall 'accommodating the sound', the controlled 'FFF' at the end of 'Labour and Love', seemed well enough accommodated to my ears.
    I did not hear all bands and unfortunately missed the gargantuan 4th section, but it was the same experience for ALL bands that played - and whether we like it or not, the adjudicators made their decision on what THEY heard.
    I agree that it is not perfect, but it is on a motorway link, central to the Area and fits the majority of criteria.
     
  9. HowarthBrass

    HowarthBrass Member

    As usual Mark.Well said!!! :clap:
     
  10. HowarthBrass

    HowarthBrass Member

    You said it!

    Then confirmed it! Well done!!! :clap:
     
  11. HowarthBrass

    HowarthBrass Member

    You said it!


    Hey Rob, there's no need to put yourself down!!!
    :tup
     
  12. 4thmandown

    4thmandown Member

    That was me being ironic. Besides I let others do it for me.

    PS Last 7 Area results, 9th, 8th, 7th, 7th, 7th, 15th, 6th
     
  13. Rebecca Owen

    Rebecca Owen Member

    What I heard from many of the of the bands was a mass of sound that hurt my ears.
    I wonder how many of the bands' MDs sat at the back of the hall to check the accoustics? I sat right on the back row and it was very loud. I enjoyed the performances from the quieter bands - and so it would appear did the adjudicators!! The bass and percussion sections from various band were waaayyy too powerful. Its all very well playing what is considered to be a ff, but when the sound actually hurts your ears, then it is worse than any intonation problems or split notes.
    I know some of people who were stewards yesterday, and they told me they had heard bands, who had not done themselves any favours by overblowing.
    Whilst I was waiting to go in I heard a "favourite" band perform and I thought then that I was glad I wasn't in there.
    I know one MD who has played in the college many a time, actually told his band to keep the markings down because the sound would travel up and back.
    Also the bands that took the tempo at the upper limit at the end did themselves no favours here either because the quavers just merged into one another producing not much more than one continuous blur of sound.

    One way to solve the problem of so many bands in the 4th section, is to take the contest back to Burton. The first 15 or so band coaches that are able to park correctly allow the bandspersonnel off to play. Any coaches that have to park on the grass / get a tyre stuck in a pothole / or can't make the sharp turn into the gates are immediately disqualified. That should cut the numbers down a bit. ;)
     
  14. Val.M

    Val.M Member

    Thank you very much. We really didn't know what to expect going into a new section and it was a supprise to us all when we came 3rd! Jon on solo trom has had the Mick taken out of him,big time, but we let him off. We're all really looking forward to the Nationals,its been quite a few years since the band qualified. :D
     
  15. MartinBen

    MartinBen Member

    No the venue was unchanged from previous years with the bands sitting at ground level instead of using the stage. I knew from last time that the room is hopeless for acoustics with heavy cutains pulled over the windows - lighting was not too good either.

    Not sure why they don't put the band on the stage?
     
  16. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Moderator Staff Member

    Good point Rebecca. If bands have been penalised for 'playing too loud' they only have their MD's to blame - not the adjudicators. The only exception is the band that plays No. 1 who unfortunately don't have the luxury of being able to listen to another bands performance.

    And for those that heard Desford and GUS in the championship section . . . . you would have bet a months salary that Desford would have won that contest . . . but the adjudicators obviously heard more intricate details of the band that played quieter - hence the result.

    ;)
     
  17. Elliebone

    Elliebone Member

    Fair point. I think I would have enjoyed school more if it had a bar! :p
     
  18. beccawheeze2

    beccawheeze2 Member

    I think I'd enjoy working there more if the bar was there!
    The only thing that has changed in the hall is we installed new heating after last years contest. Apart from that nothing has been done to the hall for years.
    Just had a thought though, the stage curtains were open this year and they were shut for Dark Side of the Moon in 2008 because the stage was full of ****. Did that create a huge resonance chamber?Can't remember last year. Maybe that's the difference.
     
  19. Di B

    Di B Member

    No. I know Matlock dropped their dynamics for Dark side of the moon. I also remember they still filled the room completely! Still won too.

    In all but top section, band number 1 can use the queen to adjust for the acoustics. Otherwise I agree MD's should take it into account. If they don't know - then they should signal to the players to play up/down accordingly on the stage.
     
  20. needmorevodka

    needmorevodka Member

    You may well have adjusted your dynamics for Dark Side of the Moon, but I've no idea how many others did. I was in the band that played 1st, and although you do get to play the National Anthem, you don't really get a proper idea of what it sounds like in the box. And anyway, I don't remember complaints of acoustic problems that year, so it seems to me that the curtains, as Becky mentioned, could well have made the difference.
     

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