Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by euphalogy, May 30, 2012.

  1. euphalogy

    euphalogy Member

    The consultation period is over, the meetings and deliberations concluded.
    The outcome? A realignment of + 1 to the 2nd section and +1 to the 3rd section (nett) no rationale given, no strategic plan defined other than a gradual rebalance.
    Is this what the bands wanted/asked for?

  2. tubafran

    tubafran Active Member

    To quote the Midlands Regional Committee

    "Following a meeting of the Kapitol Forum in London on 12th May, Burbage (Buxton) Band & Ireland Colliery Band have been invited by the Midland Regional Committee to move from the 4th Section to compete in the 3rd Section and Ibstock Brick Brass have been invited to move from the 3rd Section to compete in the 2nd Section, these all to take effect from 1st January 2013.
    All three bands have accepted this invitation in writing.
    These promotions will be in addition to those bands already promoted after the 2012 Contest.

    These additional promotions are at the discretion of the Midland Regional Committee, with the aim of a gradual equalisation of the sections"

    Why does it need to be a "gradual equalisation"? if the purpose is to even out numbers why not grab the bull by the horns and do a "north west" on it? The better bands will find their level - ask Ireland Band how they felt stuck in the 4th when they were patently a better band than that section - not fair on them or the bands the are required to compete against.
  3. euphalogy

    euphalogy Member

    It can only be seen as keeping the 2nd section low, a numerical convenience to maintain 3 sections in one day at 2 venues.
  4. stevetrom

    stevetrom Well-Known Member

    is it possibly due to the 1st section being too large, but a 'realignment' that requires bands to be relegated (possibly my own - but not this year) from the 1st section is more controversial and less likely that the bands will agree to the relegation.

    Why not state that for the next 3-4 years 3 bands will be relegated from the 1st section and only 2 promoted from the 2nd?
  5. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    You clearly have very strong feelings about the convenience factor, but with respect I think your argument is a total non-starter - it certainly isn't the only explanation as you suggest. LSC always manage to fit 5 sections into 2 days perfectly well; this year they did it with 80 bands (7 more than the Midlands) in sections of 13 - 20.

    Perhaps the gradual strategy from your regional committee is more about trying to look after their member bands and not promote anyone too quickly or relegate any in a way which is percieved to be unfair?
    If you truly believe that they are getting this wrong, then I would strongly urge you or another rep from your band to contact them, or get along to some of their meetings - please don't just expect them to see and/or act on posts you make here.
  6. euphalogy

    euphalogy Member

    Re reading the official post on MBBA website, there is a huge descrepancy in the requirements of Kapitol with regards to promotion and relegation and the incomparable actions of the North West and the Midlands.
  7. euphalogy

    euphalogy Member

    Good point and well made. This issue has been discussed in the Midlands for the past 7 years to my knowledge. ( i only emigrated here from Yorkshire in 2005) With regard to attending future meetings, it is certainly my intention to contribute fully to every debate in the future.
    I demonstrate passion on every occasion where opportunities are missed, i genuinely search for a realistic reason to have acted piecemeal in this way.
  8. ploughboy

    ploughboy Active Member

    I'm not having a go at Ireland band here - But if as you say Fran they are "patently" better than the section - they'd have won it and been promoted by now, they are a good band, but clearly not head a shoulders above the rest. . . again, no offence intended to ICCB. . .
  9. bassmittens

    bassmittens Member

    Haven't they been 2nd 2 years in a row now? i know it's not winning, but even with 2 second places their average points still meant they were not promoted due to a "freak" result 3 years ago of which i recall Dronfield were also on the receiving end of. (not mention their other podium finishes including in 3rd section contests!)

    I think it's a good thing for the other 4th section bands that ICCB are out of the way. I for one am delighted!!! (no offence meant to Ian!)

    I know the thread is about the realignment of all sections, but i agree, fairer to do so by promoting rather than relegating then they can always use the 3 up 2 down rules to help come the actual contest next year. In the case of Ireland i think they have looked at their performances and results and decided they will survive in the third section.

    Hats off to the Midlands for trying to address it.
  10. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Probably more money to be made out of this way for them !!
  11. marc71178

    marc71178 Member

    You what?
  12. euphalogy

    euphalogy Member

    It is wrong to call any result "freak" as it is totally disrespectful to those bands that filled the preceding positions.
    There is nothing new in "strange" decisions as recent years with some North West bands in the 4th section would indicate.
    These happen all too frequently for whatever reason, thereafter its a matter of consistency.
    A good argument perhaps for the Mead case of criteria based adjudication, which would/should prevent such strange occurences.
    The place system as opposed to the points system will perpetually create a grave yard in the 4th section.

    No relegations and 6 up would have produced something along the North West model.
    As for the future?
    20+ bands competing............... 1,2,3,4 positions get 1,2,3,4 points respectively, all other bands 8 points,
  13. bassmittens

    bassmittens Member

    I was using the term loosely hence the ""

    I refer to a "freak" result, as it is somewhat out of context with their otherwise consistent results both sides of that particular one, and as you rightly say it should be about a matter of consistency.
  14. Anno Draconis

    Anno Draconis Well-Known Member

    So a "freak" result is disrespectful, but a "strange" one isn't? And speaking as someone who's conducted in the NW 4th section in recent years I'd quite like to know which decisions you mean?

    No it wouldn't. It would merely ensure that they were clearly and transparently explained. You're still relying on 2 blokes' ears. If they don't hear the same as other people in the hall, then you'll just get a set of criteria pased points that no-one agrees with, instead of a placing and remarks that no-one agrees with. That doesn't mean I'm not in favour, but to imagine it will do away with "freak/strange" results (defined as "results that a more-than-usual number of the listening audience disagree with") is fallacy.

    Incidentally, I'd love to know if anyone other than the adjudicator actually listens to the whole 4th section in Blackpool. I mean, most years there are between 20-26 bands, of (it's fair to say) widely varying standard, the 4th section pieces aren't always conducive to many repeated listens, and there are two other sections going on simultaneously that you could listen to at any given time. I suspect very few, and therefore only those very few would be able to say whether a result is a "freak" or not.
  15. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    the committee i mean
  16. WoodenFlugel

    WoodenFlugel Moderator Staff Member

    So are you saying the MRC are getting paid for their efforts, or mearly in some way corrupt? Maybe you need to engage brain before engaging fingertips and keyboards....:roll:
  17. Brian

    Brian Member

    If nothing else, at this rate it gives them 7yrs to find an answer to a larger 2nd section,
    some of us may still be alive and involved in banding, but hey ho...another few wasted years taking part in the annual lottery
  18. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    cant a bloke even have a joke on here !

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