Manchester United...Fall from Grace

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Andy_Euph, Sep 16, 2004.

  1. Andy_Euph

    Andy_Euph Active Member

    Is this year we finally see Man Utd fall from grace, with a poor start in the league and a poor start in europe, we can but hope :-D
  2. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    I'll jump in here with a comment that may wind the devoted up.

    As a total bystander, I believe it's down to a certain manager being far too big for his boots, and not being willing to learn anything from anyone else. No-one knows everything... including the so called untouchable Mr F.

    It's about time he didn't get his way. He should have retired gracefully when at the top of his profession.
  3. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Don't you mean Sir?
  4. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    He may be knighted Ben... but he's still a Mr. I respect what he has achieved, especially a few years ago with the triple, but he's still an autocratic, dictatorial, rude, yet exceptional football manager. I just wish he'd not portray himself as always right.
  5. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Hehhe, sorry, was only joshing :oops:
  6. dyl

    dyl Active Member

    John, the bleeper's not working correctly - it's letting Manchester United come out ok - needs bleeping out - absolutely no swearing on tMP remember! ;)
  7. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    give it time... this year will probably be another pants one. However, people should remember that they still won the FA cup last year (including being one of only 2 teams to beat Arsenal) and there have been major disturbances like Rio's ban, Ronaldo and Heinze at the Olympics, and a load of injuries... hopefully, with the good young players coming through, and a full team back together (including Mr Rooney!) they can make a decent challenge in 05/06.

    Anyway, they never win the league if they're top at Christmas...
  8. Sharpy

    Sharpy Member

    I think half the problem is that Man Utd have lost the psychological edge that they have had in previous seasons, teams who play them no longer fear them. Im a Man Utd supporter but I think that it is time for Sir Alex to retire and let a fresh face take over. I think that unless that happens sooner rather than later, then Utd will decline much like Liverpool did in the early 90's after they dominated the game for so long.
  9. TheMusicMan

    TheMusicMan tMP Founder Staff Member

    Here here here...

    I don't really follow footy to anywhere near the extent that many of you experts actually do... I do know that M.U. a few years ago did have an excellent team. Thing is, as is the case with banding, this world is somewhat cyclical, and for a man who has been so good at his job in the past, Sir Alex (for Ben) should really know that he has had his time.
  10. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Thanks :-(
  11. Well Worth It

    Well Worth It Active Member

    Y'all could hardly expect me not to post here.

    SAF has taken us from insignificant, mid-table mediocrity to European Champions during his reign.

    I'm forever getting the bull**** "Glory Supporter" taunts and have taken them all as inaccurate vocalisations of shrouded jealousy.
    Let's face it, whoever you may support, probability favours that your beloved club have not won anything for a decade at LEAST!

    Although I can't really remember Fergie taking the helm as I was only 4, I clearly remember the 92-93 season as the turning point. It has been an incredible journey, but I feel a brand new turning point on the horizon.

    Fergie will soon be hanging up his boots, but I doubt it will be before he sees SOME fruition from his fabulous transfers.
    He quite obviously doesn't want to leave yet and has bought for the future of the club, which is commendable. He knows that this squad won't have a good crack at a European trophy for maybe 2/3 years, probably after his retirement.

    Supposing you had given anybody the kind of money that SAF has spent on this squad and told them to buy for the future, if he had bought anyone other than our recent aquisitions, then I feel that they may have wasted money and opportunity.

    Howard, Smith, Heinze, Miller, Kleberson, Ronaldo, Saha, Rooney are all fantastic players who would get in any team's 1st XI

    With a new batch of Fledglings like Eagles, Johnson, Richardson, Spector and the already emerging talent of Fletcher, the future looks so bright, there are going to have to be free shades on match days.

    Would anyone like to throw some sensible and realistic names into the arena as possible replacement managers.
    No sentimentalities like Sparky or Bruce; no Bobby Robsons nor Keagans thank you. (They are favouring punditry for a really good reason).

    My personal thoughts are erring towards Queiroz and possibly taking a former player as coach. I'd love to see Robbo return to the theatre.

    Maybe the lure of Gold Trafford would be to much for Curbishley.........I wouldn't complain.
  12. Cantonian

    Cantonian Active Member

    I hope that my team, Spurs, have as bad a season this year as Manchester United did last year!
  13. Well Worth It

    Well Worth It Active Member

    I'd have taken Defoe over Saha if it's any consolation!
    Any thoughts on future bosses Canto?
  14. Red Elvis

    Red Elvis Active Member

    As a Leeds utd fan I can only take delight in the decline at Old Trafford .Having said that , after our last few seasons I'd settle to be in the filfth's position now !!
  15. Well Worth It

    Well Worth It Active Member

    I assure you I also took great delight in your relegation. :)

    And proving the 'everlasting' loyalty of Alan Smith to ****s, was nothing compared to his desire to actually win something.
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2004
  16. johnflugel

    johnflugel Active Member

    I suppose I am risking another battle with 'well worth it' here but before I start, this is not something I want. Also the views I suggest are nothing to do with the fact I am a Leeds fan.

    Everytime it is suggested that Man Utd are 'falling from grace', there is always this defensive, back to the wall response from 'Red fans: 'how many trophies has your team won?', 'remember 1998' etc etc etc. If Man Utd continue along the same lines as they are at present, they are in danger of becoming like another Liverpool of recent years. I hear every year from Liverpool fans 'its our year this year', 'Pass and move', 'we are used to great football', 'building for the future'.....but what have Liverpool achieved within the last ten years?

    The simple facts are that football goes in cycles. Manchester United have been an amazing, dominating force within English Football for the last ten years or so. They will continue to be a massive club because of it's fan base and historical place in English Football. However, just winning the FA Cup is not good enough for them: I seem to remember a load of Reds fans mocking the scousers for getting excited about winning the FA, League and UEFA Cup a few years ago. What with Arsenals current form and dominance, Chelseas continuing development and new impetus at there not a danger that Man Utd could be getting excited about winning the above cups soon?

    I think the critical thing for Man Utd is not the players they buy etc but how SAF moves on and who replaces him. When the times comes (and it cannot be far off), SAF will be a big big man to replace. I honestly do not know who their best option would be. Not convinced Curbishley would make the step up - I mean the Valley to Old Trafford would be a culture shock! Bryan Robson was an awesome player but what has he really done at management level.? He had a degree of success getting Boro' promoted (although that was funded by mass bank roll) but the acid test of him is what he does at a struggling club with no cash (BCFC). To my mind they will need someone who will come in and not concentrate on the past but be ultra single minded and work with what's infront if Wenger has done and what Mourinho and Benitez appear to be doing at this early stage.
  17. Red Elvis

    Red Elvis Active Member

    Smithy took some stick for going to Man U , and in a normal season I would have been the first to yell "Judas" (When Cantona signed for you I think that was the first time I ever swore at the dinner table in front of my parents !!).

    Having said that , last season ( and for while previous to that ) Smithy appeared to be the only Leeds player on pitch that seemed to care what was going on and have any heart for a fight.
    Much as I wish he had joined any team other than utd , I cannot find it in myself to wish him ill for going there.The way things are going , I doubt we'll have to worry about him playing against us for a while.
    As for winning something , we'll have to see !! Maybe Arsenal would have been a better bet , although watching the champions league games this week maybe we cannot right the reds off just yet (unfortunately!!)
  18. Well Worth It

    Well Worth It Active Member

    Admittedly, this has not been the start to the season that Fergie would've been dreaming of.
    Remember all though, that we are at our most dangerous when playing catch-up.

    Once the team gels and SAF decided upon his favoured attack force, (Ruud and Rooney?), we see the return of our injured soldiers and get our winning ways back, it could well be the season to surprise many who are foolish enough to write us off at this immature stage of the season.
  19. johnflugel

    johnflugel Active Member

    I respect what you say there - this is a sensible thing to say.

    I have not written them off yet as they have tendency to prove the doubters wrong. There is a certain 'steel' missing from Man Utd though - not just this season but towards the end of last year in particular. Rooney will without doubt prove to be a hit and Rio's return will help...but will it be enough.

    With me not being close to Man Utd maybe I am reading this wrong but ever since SAF said he was staying there just seems to be a stigma about them. You almost that everyone is waiting for the time he moves on, rather than focussing on the job in hand. I think he should move on now, not because of the poor start but to aid their future development. There is danger that if Chelsea and Liverpool continue with their early signs of improvement and Arsenal carry playing their spanking brand of football, they will be left behind and the job will be twice as hard for the new guy.
  20. Red Elvis

    Red Elvis Active Member

    Whoever follows SAF has a job on his hands , particularly if SAF moves to an upstairs role within the structure.When Sir Matt Busby handed over , there were problems for his succcessor as the senior players would bypass the manager and go straight to Busby , and given SAF's profile and also his almost "father-figure" status to most of these players , I think any successor to SAF will have trouble of a similar nature.

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