Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Leyfy, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    I have a student at school who has just taken up cornet (started on trumpet) and plays in a local junior band. Had a chat with him yesterday and recommended he buys an Arban. However, his *french horn* playing peri teacher told him not to as he's 'doing grade 5 so you don't need one of those as it'll be too easy'! ERRRRRRR!!!!

    As a cornet player myself I found this absolutely amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

    He also recommended he got the shallowest mouthpiece he could find for the cornet, or a mouthpiece adaptor to use his trumpet mouthpiece!!!!!!!!

    Is it me, or is this complete madness?!?!?!?!?!?!?
  2. Bradderz!!!

    Bradderz!!! New Member

    Madness! maybe he's mixing Arban up with a Tune a Day?

    French Horn says it all!!
  3. Hornblower RN

    Hornblower RN Member

    Isn't this typical of "orchestral" players :mad: :rolleyes:
  4. Nanny Ogg

    Nanny Ogg Member

    total madness, my friend's daughter found alot of her grade set piece were actually straight out of the Arban and it saved her Mum money in the long run not having to buy the individual scripts.
  5. Texus

    Texus Member

    Not all orchestral players are daft you know!!!
  6. davidquinlan

    davidquinlan Member

    It does sound a bit off, but not madness, but as a cornet player, would you know what to recommend to a French Horn player in terms of method books or mouthpieces [or trombone player]?

    Must just be a simple misunderstanding.
  7. trumpetmike

    trumpetmike Active Member

    A few comments - are you absolutely sure that this is what was said? I have come across a number of situations where what a student has reported as what was said is not exactly the same as what has been told them. I am not calling the student a liar, just making sure that you have the full story BEFORE you go in with all guns blazing.
    The mouthpiece - maybe the student is having problems with the upper register and their sound is a little "tubby" (for want of a better word). Sometimes a slightly shallower mouthpiece is a solution to this potential problem. There is also a school of thought amongst many top level teachers and players that one should play on the smallest mouthpiece that allows you to still play with a full tone (this is the opposite of what many other top level teachers/plyers say - play the largest mouthpiece upon which you can still play with a full sound into the upper register.
    There will be a big problem if they try to find a trumpet mouthpiece adaptor to allow it to be used on a cornet - it can't be done unless you are using a mouthpiece system such as Warburton or Stomvi, where the same top part can be used on both style of shank. A cornet mouthpiece can be placed in an adaptor to allow it to be used in a trumpet.

    I am not saying that this is not madness, but I think that it might do you some good to discuss further what has been said before ranting about what you have heard is the situation.

    Out of interest - if they already have a teacher, why were you suggesting what to buy? Surely that is the job of the teacher?

    As for whether the Arban is ever too easy - if you find the Arban easy, you aren't playing it properly.

    And isn't this stereotypical attitude typical of the brass band world:rolleyes:

    There are terrible teachers in the brass band world as well as the orchestral. I have heard a number of MDs say things that are completely opposite to good technique, yet because they are in the middle of the band, the vast majority of the band will follow every word as if it is gospel.

    Not all teachers are good and it would be foolish to say that they are.

    If you are unhappy with the tuition that somebody else is getting, maybe you should have a word with their parents. Most peripatetic brass teachers have to teach all the brass instruments in order to make a living, we cannot be specialists on everything. Personally, I am happy to teach the basics on all brass, but once a student gets to a reasonable standard they will need a specialist teacher. If there isn't one available through the peripatetic system this will often involve more money being spent by the parents, something which some parents are not always happy about.
  8. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    I know at least one of the Grade 6 studies is in there, as is a Grade 8 one plus all the beneficial exercises etc.... Arban for life

    I suppose the question is, should non-specialists in an instrument be teaching them?! For example: I peri teach on a thursday evening. I supposedly am around Grade 6 standard on the piano (what I call 'classroom' piano) but I know I am not a pianist AT ALL! *LOL* I was asked to teach a boy at Grade 2 standard on piano. I have PGCE, degree in music etc, etc (not to mention countless years of painful piano lessons!) - BUT after a term I realised that he needed a proper pianist to teach him basic technique so swapped him for Grade 1 theory class! Surely being taught basic technique is MOST important as a beginner?!!

    For example, is it right to expect a trombonist to be able to teach cornet, or a clarinettist to teach flute etc, etc, as regularly happens as far as I can see?
  9. Hornblower RN

    Hornblower RN Member but it's nice to have a dig when one gets a chance 'cos they certainly have a dig at dedicated brass band players on a permanent basis!
  10. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    The student is probably one of the most reliable ones I have! Thats why I was SO shocked! Also annoyed that the teacher himself had obviously dismissed everything I had said to him, as a cornet player myself.

    I fully understand the need for peri teachers to teach many instruments to make a living, I just wondered if it was the best way forward for the students themselves? (In an ideal world, of course ;) )

    The mouthpiece bit fine.... but the Arban 'too easy'?!?!?!?!?! No way!!! Sorry ;)
  11. Brassy Lady

    Brassy Lady Member

    Or even worse - for a trombonist to teach flute, or a clarinettist to teach cornet, a la Music for Schools Foundation :mad: . Could James Galway demonstrate how to double tongue on a euph, could a first class bass player at the top of his game teach a flautist the basic techniques of note production etc, etc.
  12. Alan MacRae

    Alan MacRae Member

    Quite agree... at the basic level. However, once the student has mastered the techniques of his chosen instrument, then any musician can tutor. I was once sent a post grade 8 clarinet student by his clarinet teacher. She said "now he can play the notes, can you teach him to play the music".

    In my own past, I was originally taught by an orchestral trombone player, and then a french horn player. Both gave me an excellent grounding, but musicianship came to me later in life from conductors of bands, listening to music, and perhaps most, from Arthur Butterworth, Chris Andrews and Darrol Barry at college, doing score analysis, composition and arranging.
  13. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    I started the student off with interest in the trumpet, and I also know his parents and take him to junior brass band. He asked me if there was any books etc he could use for practice as he was finding what he was doing in lessons a bit easy. I am also one half of the music department at my school so we were talking about playing in general.
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2007
  14. Leyfy

    Leyfy Active Member

    Oh, and no I wouldn't know which French Horn method books or mouthpieces to use! However, thats not my job, and as he is teaching cornet (and the only instrument he teaches at my school!) I would expect him to know the basics. Also, as part of my job I have to teach elements of music I am not familiar with to exam level , e.g Bhangra at GCSE - but I also see it as part of my job to find out about these things before I start teaching it. Surely that is just good practice?!?!
  15. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Oh dear! Perhaps we can stop dealing in stereotypes here? We all make music after all - the pointlessness of this is a little bit like Christians and Muslims fighting each other over who has the best version of their god.
  16. SuperMosh

    SuperMosh New Member

    Well said.

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