Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Wonky_Baton, Feb 13, 2003.

  1. Wonky_Baton

    Wonky_Baton Active Member

    Big problems with one band in the north east, where three players have defected just before the regional for various reasons and have been pillioried for it by the band in the bands web forum. :?

    Should the band remember the good the players have done in the past or shun them because they wanted to move on? The band in question have always done quite well out of pinching other bands players and I see double standards and a smell of male cows poo. :D

    Is this right considering we are all amateur musicians?? :roll:
  2. :x :x :x It makes me soooooooo mad when players are name called because they want to move on, for people to do so just before a major contest usually means something has gone drastically wrong for them in the band they were in, I have no idea as to which band you mean but maybe they should look a bit closer to home before condemning those who left :?: :?: :?:
  3. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    I don't know what has gone on with the Band in the 'North East' but the question you should asked is -
    Is there ever a good time to leave a Band?

    I wonder if this is the first band to experience the effects of the change in Registration Rules?

    How many other bands will loose players a week or so before the Area's to find them playing at the same contest with a different band?
  4. Curious

    Curious Member

    This can be a really difficult area and in my experience lots of good friendships have been affected because of people's inability to divorce "banding" and other facets of life.

    We all make choices to try and improve our life standards and banding should be no different.

    If people make a decision to go then we should all try not to rip them apart afterwards.

    On the other hand it should always be incumbent on players to try and leave at the most convenient time (if there is such a thing as Roger correctly points out!!)

    Always an emotive subject around this time!!!!! :( :( :evil: :evil:
  5. BigHorn

    BigHorn Active Member

    Its a bit rich bands complaining that their best players move on at awkward times. How many bands (MDs), realising that their preparation for a contest is not going that well, would bring in superior players to replace those not up to scratch?. Probably most who take their contesting seriously.
    Players don't walk away without somewhere to go and there is no where to go unless somebody has been forced out of their position. Loyalty works both ways- you can't complain about player loyalty if you dont show any loyalty to your players. Live by the sword and you die by it. Make your bed and lie in it. etc.
    I don't necessarily think hiring / firing is wrong if thats the way you want your band to run, but you can't expect one sided loyalty.
  6. Boneman

    Boneman Member

    I have not had much experience of this, where our band is there are not many other bands locally so poaching/losing players is not really much of an option for us (thankfully!)

    Having said that I get a lot of pleasure from the band I play with and I would not want to leave the Band (and my friends!) in the lurch.

    If I did have to leave I would like to think I would fulfill any outstanding engagements, and try to give time for a replacement to be found.
  7. Keppler

    Keppler Moderator Staff Member

    I find myself a bit in over my head on this discussion..
    BH raises a couple of good points.
    However are we talking about a band or a business? I realise the importance of contests as much as anyone, but seems to me that a purely contest-success driven group of musicians is missing the point.

    For all the bands out there with constitutions (possibly most?) look at the primary aims and objectives of your band. I'll bet that in most cases, they include a phrase:
    - To raise the standard of music of the band and its members.. blah blah..

    This makes the sort of "hiring and firing" mentioned by BH unconstitutional.
    I'm not saying that all bands (or even a lot of bands) do this sort of thing. I'm fairly sure that 99% of them don't. But if this is going to be an acceptable method of "musical-progression" in a band, it should be laid out so that it's obvious to the "members". Other bands can then have loyalty to their members and receive loyalty from them in return. The business bands can do their own thing.

    We've had plenty of oppertunity in the past to make line up changes for concerts. We decided not to artificially raise the standard of our band for the purposes of contests. I think it was the right decision.

    Forgive the soap-box..
    Neal (16 years with DBB and climbing)
  8. sparkling_quavers

    sparkling_quavers Active Member

    :shock: I think you would be surprised Keppler!!

    Perhaps this is moving away from the point. The original comment was about players leaving a band in the lurch jsut before a contest. Sometimes personal reasons crop up but I don't think there can be many good reasons to leave a band in the lurch like that! As to the new registration laws allowing players to register with a new band at very late notice. This is a very useful tool for many bands who might be struggling with a few positions in the run up for a contest but like all other rules....there will be some people who will abuse it. If players want to move on to better things then that is great and I think most bandspeople respect their fellows that choose to do that. But to be honest, if a person leaves and registers with a new band a week before a contest it is most likely that they are doing it in spite or have eventually given in to weeks of 'come play for us phone calls'. To leave a band just before a contest is bad enough but to register and play for another band is a pretty low thing to do! I personally wouldn't have any respect for a bandsperson that chose to do that. If he/she wants to move on they need to do it in a dignified manner and leave with enough notice/after contests.
  9. bigcol

    bigcol Member

    Seeing as it's my band we are talking about I'd better say something.

    IMHO players moving is ok as long as it is done with a bit of notice with upcoming contests taken into account. When I resigned from my last band, I still did the contest (CISWO) afterwards.

    I know how much of a hassle it is both as a pissed off player on one side whose fed up and wants to move on, and a pissed off band secretary who has to find 4 players 2 weeks before a contest because of such actions.

    I can't say that the band I left think of me any better because I gave them notice, but I feel better and I won't get a reputation as a mardy sod with other bands.

    I suppose it's burning bridges - I hope to sometime go back to my old band when the dusts settles and my reason for leaving is removed. If I'd a gone in a puff of smoke, I doubt I'd ever be allowed back.

    At the top section, such is the demand for good players that maybe those issues are peripheral to the main aim of winning contests.

    Thanks Alan for bringing this up - it's a mute point with a few people I know!!
  10. cornetgirl

    cornetgirl Active Member

    I think it's quite an emotive issue really...

    In many cases it depends on the circumstances - could you in all honesty leave a band on good terms if you've been stabbed in the back? I don't think so!

    If a band is worth its salt then it shouldn't (IMHO) "buy in" players in the run-up to a big contest to get a better result - what does that say for the team who've been working damn hard for all those weeks before. Similarly, if you make a commitment to a band then you should be prepared to see it through and not run because a better offer has come up...if the better offer is that keen then they will wait for you to fulfil your commitments (in theory)!

    I find it quite sad that this still goes on really...the politics of banding can be pretty cruel at times and in some cases I've seen it really upset people. I'm thankful that there are a majority of decent people in banding who play because they enjoy it and don't set out to cause trouble - long may they reign!

    Rach x
  11. sparkling_quavers

    sparkling_quavers Active Member

    In total agreement !
  12. cornetgirl

    cornetgirl Active Member

  13. cornetgirl

    cornetgirl Active Member

    IMHO (yet again, I'm a very humble kinda person!) is a band's web forum the best place to pillory players who have left for whatever reason? I know I'd hate to be slagged off online so to speak for the world to see...maybe this is something to think about for all bands that do have a forum - should it be band members only and password controlled or is that taking things too far?

    Just my two penn'orth... :? I'm a peace-loving person and I hate it when things get nasty! :(

    R x
  14. Curious

    Curious Member

  15. bigcol

    bigcol Member

    In reponse to GB's web forum, they have already deleted some posts so I guess they already know it is not good crack.

    I'm a newbie to the band - the reason in my post I used myself instead of the band as an example is because:

    a) I'm not really too involved with the band, and don't really mind what goes on


    b) They haven't been shy of "recruiting" players in the past

    I was more bothered about the philosophy of players leaving without notice and how I had to put up with serving my notice, therefore why should anyone else get away with it :shock:
  16. Big Twigge

    Big Twigge Active Member

    I left to go to university in leeds a year and a half ago and I'm still playing with band at home (Shropshire) when I can, that must make me really loyal!!!!

    (Or am I just a big fat band geek......................???)
  17. Going purely on your name I would hazzard a guess at the latter.

    :wink: :D
  18. Wonky_Baton

    Wonky_Baton Active Member

    There appears to be different reasons why the players left that particular band. One wanted to play flugal and was put on rep, but left to take a flugal seat at a first section band. One lad was disappointed cos the band withdrew from the last contest. It appears the 3rd just wanted to leave.

    Life is too short to waste time doing anything that you are not happy. Its costs both time and money to play in a band and if there is someting you dont agree with then its time to go otherwise your frustration will affect the rest of the band.

    I could understand this bands argument if the players involved are long term members but the band have a tight knit nucleus and the rest of the players arrive and depart regularly. I would hazard a guess that 50% of their players have been there less than a year and they should get revolving doors on the bandroom. They must have a full time clerk at the registration office just for them :p

    It takes a long time to build genuine affection for a band. I have played for well over 12 bands and have enjoyed them all but I have only felt any loyalty and affection for 3 of them. Every player thats leaves a band for a genuine reason should be borne no malice. A saying springs to mind people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones :roll:
  19. Di B

    Di B Member

    Interesting subject!

    In my banding years I feel strongly about only two bands and one of them is the one I am in now.

    I have always tried to give notice with bands I have played with. Sometimes this is just not possible though and I feel terribly guilty about it!

    There bands where I have given notice have had different reactions.

    The Chmp/1st section bands have been very good about it and appreciated the notice I gave and the fact I stated they could call on me if they needed assistance (even when I was moving 50 miles away!)

    The lower sections I have played with have ended up having a dig at me at times. Once I handed my notice into a band yet played for the next contest even though it was six weeks away. In those six weeks people wouldn't talk to me and would make snide comments so that to be honest I was thankful to get away from a band which I had held so close to my heart! (This is going back a long time ago and I did in fact rejoin down the line!)

    I think even if you have lost heart, you should give a band adequate notice wherever possible. People who don't do this in my opinion cannot really ever have cared about the band. I guess the exception I personally make is for the 'hire and fire' conductors. If you do that to people who put effort and dedication into your band then you cannot have a go at people leaving without notice! Additionally, people backstabbing, namecalling and creating a bad atmosphere in the band is also an acceptable reason to me for leaving without or with very little notice.

    Interestingly, I have also been honest with a band I was registered with about going to play with another band who did want me to sign and that I was tempted to sign. My reasoning behind this was with banding gossip my band would find out anyway so thought I would be up front about it.

    The reaction was interesting.... they just wanted to know if I was going to stay or go and then do one immediatly. So I guess that although bands may appreciate notice, they do not necessarily appreciate honesty! lol!

    For those interested, in hindsight I made the right decision at the time for me. :)

    Di xx
  20. satchmo shaz

    satchmo shaz Active Member

    lifes tooo short! enjoy while you can I say!
    just glad you;re back playing Di, and I'm glad you helped good ole LE out when you 1st came back to this area :)

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