Lord of The Rings Symphony (Johan De Meij) Tuba Part

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by coolio777, Nov 22, 2015.

  1. coolio777

    coolio777 New Member

    We are playing the Lord of The Rings Symphony at my school for our winter concert. The entire bass part is written an octave too high, and it's pretty distracting to read. Our band director suggested we rewrite it in finale, but that'll take ages. I was wondering if anyone here has already done so?
     
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  3. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Hi there. When you say 'bass part', do you mean the tuba part (concert pitch bass clef) or is it called Eb or Bb Tuba?
     
  4. coolio777

    coolio777 New Member

    I don't have the part with me right now, I'll get back to you tomorrow.
     
  5. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Member

    Or do you mean String Bass - is this an Orchestral part ?
     
  6. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    The concert band score doesn't show a string bass, but it is possible one is included in the set. Dutch sets also sometimes include Eb and Bb bass parts in bass clef. Lots of room for confusion, but I find it hard to imagine the tuba part is incorrectly written an octave too high in a piece that's been around for 25 years. My guess is that the OP has a string bass part and needs a tuba part.
     
  7. coolio777

    coolio777 New Member

    Here is what is says... This is very confusing. I'm certain that this isn't the orchestral version.
     

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  8. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    That does look weird. Can you show us the first bar of music?
     
  9. coolio777

    coolio777 New Member

    Yup
     

    Attached Files:

  10. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Member

    C-Bass is I presume Contrabass ie String Bass.
    Possibly this is a mix of Concert Band and Orchestral parts ?
     
  11. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    No, it's C bass, as opposed to Eb or Bb Bass (in other words, concert pitch - another Dutch querk!) I've e-mailed Johan for some clarification here but it does look like the part is indeed mistransposed.
     
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  13. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Member

    It will be interesting to see what he says - especially after 25 years.
    I presume that the 8va basso written on is from the Band Director - possibly it is his misinterpretation ?
     
  14. euphoria

    euphoria Member

    The odd thing here is not that it is written in concert pitch. F or bass clef almost always is. I have once or twice seen a bass clef in Bb ?!?!
    The slightly odd thing is that it doesn't just say bass or tuba, but C-bass. Most Bb og Eb-tuba-players who plays in other musical groups than brass bands would have no problems reading bass clef in concert pitch. The 8va basso is simply to avoid having to read a lot of ledger lines below the staff. Parts in bass clef are absolute in pitch in contrast to most brass band parts in treble clef that are relative in pitch - a middle C in a cornet part is obviously sounding an octave higher than the middle C in a euphonium part. Tubas in concert pitch is not a dutch oddity. A lot of orchestral players use them and if able to transpose (and most orchestral players are) bring them along to the band. They sound great!
     
  15. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    I wasn't suggesting that having a part in bass clef concert pitch was a Dutch querk, but that calling them C bass was! It's not written for a C tuba, after all. Any tuba will do.

    All concert band tuba parts are written in concert pitch bass clef in the score, whether they are played on F, Eb, Bb or C tubas (though parts may be supplied in Eb or Bb TC or Eb or Bb BC - also a Dutch querk, eminating from fanfares.)

    This is the ONLY time I've seen a tuba part written an octave higher 'to save leger lines' - that just isn't done - and I suspect it may be that this was obviously a very early computer setting programme - probably an early Finale score.

    There is no such thing as a 'concert pitch' tuba, because they all are - it's only the parts that are sometimes transposed.

    Runs and hides........
     
  16. Ianroberts

    Ianroberts Well-Known Member

    Bloody hell, the bloke only asked to scrounge a bass part ! :eek::eek::eek:
     
  17. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Right, I've been in touch with Johan and what you have is indeed the only tuba part to TLOTR. It is a surprise that this has discrepancy not been rectified over the years, but apparently not.
    So there is not another part available that will help you, I'm afraid, unless, as you ask in your OP, someone has already made the transposition.

    From the horse's mouth!
     
  18. Cornet Nev.

    Cornet Nev. Member

    Now, and thanks to Philip things become a lot clearer, however we are back to the original question, has anyone already done a transposition?
    If not it requires someone with the knowledge, the time, and also a modern version of Finale installed who is willing to do just that! Don't look at me though, I am no expert and being a mere cornet player with only basic treble clef knowledge it would be way over the top of my head, even though I do have Finale 2012 installed.
     
  19. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Is sight-transposing down an octave really that hard, though? Most Bb bass players seem to manage it without difficulty ...

    [Runs and Hides ... ]
     
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  20. Cornet Nev.

    Cornet Nev. Member

    For an experienced bass player of either Bb or Eb you may well be correct Gareth, however as the OP stated this is for a school band where the players are maybe still on the bottom rungs of the ladder. To actually rewrite the piece in a lower octave and as a Bb or Eb on a treble staff so that those new and learning players can understand it, will take some time. Get the youngsters playing first, teach them transposition later.
     
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  21. Matthew

    Matthew Active Member

    An octave?! Most BBb bass players go 2 octaves below. :p

    Reminds me of my school wind band days. All the parts were in bass clef Tuba and then there were very little BBb treble clef parts available. I used to transpose and handwrite out all my parts and because I did it so often, I can now transpose bass clef while playing, so it least it taught me something, lol. :D
     
  22. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    The OP never said anything about transposing it for Treble clef Bb or Eb; he only said it was "distracting" to read it an octave lower, from which I inferred he was already reading bass clef. I just can't see that an octave transposition can be that difficult. And in any case, I say, get the youngsters learning transposition as early as possible, while they're still learning like sponges and before they get put off by adults telling them that transposition is difficult ...
     

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