Lonely Mill by Handel Lancaster

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by satchmo shaz, May 21, 2004.

  1. satchmo shaz

    satchmo shaz Active Member

    Hi experts!! has anyone got any info on the overture The Lonely Mill by Handel Lancaster?
    I know there is an orchestral version as well as the BB version

    cheers :wink:
  2. sunny_jimbob

    sunny_jimbob Member

    Google tells me it was written jointly by Lancaster and Handel... :shock: :roll:
  3. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    Not guilty!!!

  4. George BB

    George BB Member

    You got in quick David. Was just going to tell em it wasn't you, then I scrolled down. You could have done it though.
  5. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    All I can tell you is it's a damn good piece!
  6. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    Is there really an orchestral version? Have you heard it or is that just hearsay?

    I wondered if H Lancaster was another pseudonym used by W Rimmer, who used many such alter egos, because:

    1) H Lancaster has no other known works credited to him to the best of my knowledge and he is not listed in the New Grove Dictionary, so was clearly not an established orchestral composer.

    2) There is no arranger given for the BB version of Lonely Mill, suggesting that it was composed by someone with a thorough understanding of band scoring. But if this was the case, surely there would be more band pieces by him, or else he would have been known as conductor or adjudicator somewhere.

    If not Rimmer then who?

  7. satchmo shaz

    satchmo shaz Active Member

    hi there, interesting........ it is typical rimmer, isnt it?
    however my brother (solo euph with LE) was on the phone to some company and was put on hold and guess what he heard!! an orchestral version of Lonely Mill, but I suppose it could have been transcribed for orchestra later on like John Irelands Comedy overture, originally written for BB, then later transcribed for orchestra.

    Thanks :wink:
  8. drummerboy

    drummerboy Member

    Denis or Frank Wright maybe? :?
  9. Okiedokie of Oz

    Okiedokie of Oz Active Member

    Most likely the Wrights, or maybe it was the Round half of Wright and Round?
  10. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Did Frank Wright ever produce any original compositions? All his pieces that I've come across have been transcriptions. The style of this suggests someone of a slightly earlier era too.

    I don't think it can be Denis Wright - it's a bit too square and ├╝ber-brass-bandy for that. His original work tends to be a little more sophisticated and Romantic than 'The Lonely Mill'.

    William Rimmer I could well believe.

    When was it published? For reference, Rimmer died in 1936, Denis Wright in 1967 and Frank Wright in 1970. Wright and Round was founded in 1875.

    This isn't the first time this has come up. Were there any responses to this, Mr Wooler (username andywooler; would you believe I had to search for that?)?
  11. satchmo shaz

    satchmo shaz Active Member

    the peice was published in 1936 so it was obvoiusly written before that, I too did a search and found Andy woolers thread! :wink:
    So it all points to Rimmer so far!!
    Any more thoughts?
  12. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    I spent quite a bit of time looking for information on this and came up with now't, although I did find a reference to Handel Lancaster as an organist!


  13. euphemism

    euphemism Member

    Maybe a seance is the answer.....

    Is there anybody there.....

    Who are you really Handel Lancaster......??

    Maybe if we play it badly someone will spin in their grave - so if we set up some surveillance we will confirm who it is.........
  14. HunkySteve

    HunkySteve Member

    Who are the current publishers? Same as on the original? Maybe they would know...
  15. satchmo shaz

    satchmo shaz Active Member

    Boosey and Hawkes Brass Band Journal No 780
    copyright 1936 in usa by Hawkes &Son (london) Ltd.

    (booseys amalgamated with Hawkes in 1930 or thereabouts)
  16. Janet Watkins

    Janet Watkins Member

    Frank Wright wrote Sirius which was the 4th Section Test Piece at Pontins in 2001.

  17. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    Was it anything like tLM stylistically?
  18. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    I remember Sirius being much more advanced in style than tLM, but that's from last performing it more than 20 years ago!

  19. Janet Watkins

    Janet Watkins Member

    I would say that tLM was more 'twee'.

    My memories of tLM being that it was the piece the junior band were working on for the local Music Festival when my son started playing.

    Just found this link which has an entry for Frank Wright, and gives a few more of his original works.

  20. Trazom

    Trazom New Member

    In the census of England and Wales for 1911 residing at 4 Rosslyn House, Rushcroft Rd., London SW is one Stephen Handel Lancaster, aged 33 and his wife Elizabeth aged 30. The couple are married and have no children. Mr Lancaster describes himself as an 'Orchestral Conductor working in Music Halls' and claims to have been born in Morecambe, Lancashire. Elizabeth's place of birth is Northumberland, Newcastle on Tyne.

    Meanwhile in the same census of 1911, living at 70 Belmont Street, Southport is a William Rimmer, aged 49 with his wife Mary, aged 50 with their three daughters Emily, Marion, and Evelyn aged respectively 23, 21 and 12. William is a musical conductor, and Emily a music teacher. William was born in Southport, Lancashire as were his three children and his wife hailed from Chester.

    Try as I might I have been unable to track down Handel Lancaster in any of the other census years, neither have I found a birth registered for him in and around 1878, nor a marriage for a Handel Lancaster and an Elizabeth.

    If nothing else I think it can safely be said that Handel Lancaster and William Rimmer are not the same person.