Least Favourite piece?

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Pythagoras, Feb 7, 2006.

  1. kaderschaufel

    kaderschaufel New Member

    clearly, Pomp and Circumstance No. 1, those sixteenths-arpeggios are so annoying

    and in the trio, most conductors make a ritardando every 16 measures, it's a f***ing march, you're supposed to be able to walk with it, you can't just suddenly slow down!
  2. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

    Have you got an example where performances have used such tempo variations actually whilst marching (with this or any other march)? I don't think it's such a crime to flex the time musically when used in a concert situation.
  3. Euphman2

    Euphman2 Active Member

    I consider P and P 1 to be a concert march rather than marching march so tempo variations are acceptable. Besides which, to fit two A4 sheets into march size cards would mean you would need the eyesight of a top sniper to read it on the march!!!!!!
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  4. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

  5. kaderschaufel

    kaderschaufel New Member

    ok, apparently our tastes differ here, imo, since marches are originally thought to be played while walking, you should play them as if you would walk, even if you actually don't. it belongs to the genre of the march and makes it beautiful, that steady pace which never stops or slows down. I mean, you wouldn't do tempo variations with "real" marches, such as Slaidburn or Death or Glory, not even in a concert situation, because it just doesn't fit.

    of course, you could argue that Elgar maybe didn't want to write a "real" march, that he deliberately neglected some rules and kind of created a new genre, which is allowed if the new genre is better than the old one. It's not trivial whether it is or not, in my opinion it isn't.
    Jack E likes this.
  6. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

    One does do tempo variations with 'real' marches in concert situations. An allargando bar leading into the final stanza is a regular occurrence in many performances.

    I can understand the purist view that a march should be entirely strict tempo, however, once that self-constraint is overcome, tempo flexing in marches (when done well) is stylish and creates interest.
  7. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

    I had a listen to side one over the weekend and did find it more enjoyable than my initial impressions although I still don't really rate it.

    I was rather bemused at the performance announcements towards the end; "2 soprano cornets", "2 euphoniums" etc. I'm not sure what they really add.
  8. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Well-Known Member

    Sir Edward clearly disagrees with you. He marks several tempo changes in the score. (If he were alive now, he'd turn in his grave.)
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  9. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I agree with you that "our tastes differ" on this, I think it goes much deeper than that. Imagine if composers didn't expand from original "real marches". We would have missed out on so many quite wonderful "concert and symphonic" marches (I hesitate to attach the label). It's not too big a step to expand your philosophy to other music; for example would you consider hymn tunes or folk tunes the only "real" music? Many times I marched playing a hymn tune; that worked equally well but it didn't make the tune a march! Sorry kaderschaufel, but in my opinion you've simply got this wrong but I do respect your right to an opinion.
  10. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    Sorry, can't resist.......One would hope that if Sir Edward were still alive he wouldn't be in his grave to turn in it ;)
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  11. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

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  12. kaderschaufel

    kaderschaufel New Member

    I agree that there's nothing wrong with developing older music styles to make something new (or else, we'd still be singing Gregorian chants), but only if it's a good development.

    It's hard to explain why I don't like those ritardandos in P&C, I just see some posh orchestra-people that are like: "We can't play marches like miners and peasants, let's add some tempo variations, because we're better than them."
  13. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

    Except miners and peasants do the same.

    This thread has the potential of helping to open up a whole dimension of musical enjoyment.
  14. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    I'm more offended that most bands seem to be incapable of placing the notes together in those rits than I am by the rits themselves...

    If the piece was properly rehearsed (it seems it very rarely is) and the rits were pulled off smoothly, cleanly and with the same note length right the way down the band, it'd sound an awful lot more effective than it often does.
  15. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

    Maybe kaderschaufel has a point when quoting "We can't play marches like miners and peasants, let's add some tempo variations, because we're better than them." ;)
  16. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    Haha, I kinda meant that the presence of the rits doesn't offend me at all... but... well yeah, any march (with or without rits) is only as effective as the quality of the performance...
    4th Cornet likes this.
  17. Elfman

    Elfman New Member

    Has to be bolivar...
  18. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    You don't remember the voiceover by Vivian Stanshall (of the famous "Bonzo Dog Doo-dah Band") at the corresponding point in the original? I think the use of Brian Turner to do the same thing in Tubular Brass was a masterstroke, with the Yorkshire accent and all. I particularly liked the "two slightly distorted baritones" to replace the "two slightly distorted guitars" in the original.

    Being of a similar age to that of Sandy Smith, I also vividly remember the impact of the original LP release back in the seventies, and I still own LP versions of both the original and some of the follow-ups, as well as the David Bedford "Orchestral Tubular Bells", and I find it fascinating to hear how Sandy Smith has incorporated aspects from both versions into his arrangements. Being something of a saddo, I have also now purchased both the CD and Vinyl versions of his Tubular Brass version, and have also booked tickets to hear it live in Basingstoke later this year ...
  19. 4th Cornet

    4th Cornet Active Member

    Unfortunately the original was before my time. It makes more sense now you've explained it was similar in the original. ☺️
  20. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Or John Cleese in the 30th Anniversary edition ;)

    The Brian Turner thing was fun...the narration was recorded by Kevin Wadsworth during the day of the national finals (actually at the RAH) and sent up to me to drop on....I agree he does it well!

    It's a cracking live gig, Gareth - you won't be disappointed!

    We're closing out the first edits on the followup CD this week.