Kaleidoscope Recording

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by MRSH, Mar 3, 2004.

  1. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    I just had to put pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard) on this.

    I've been asked to take a band through a couple of rehearsals on Kaleidoscope and to get used to the music I acquired a score and listened intently through the recording three or four times. All I can say is that I am damn glad I didn't pay for it.

    In another thread I criticised the awful percussion parts of Coventry Variations. Here I cannot commend Philip Sparke enough for the output and production of the score and parts.

    But as far as the recording is concerned though - well. For a commercially produced recording it's a disgrace. And I must ask - percussion? Were you sightreading? Wrong entries, missed entries, missing parts altogether. Absolutely woeful.

    If anybody else produced a commercially available recording to this standard they would soon go out of business.

    I would suggest that in future years the "Regionals" CD is given a miss unless the bands and recording company actually take the time to do it properly.

    Anyway, it's late, I've listened to Kaleidoscope five times now and my rant is over.
  2. maybe the band who played it were sick and tired of playin it after the 1st 2 bars or summin, im particulaly bored Keppler: modded playing this piece now, i'll b glad when we've played it at the area and then put it in the library where it belongs, it maybe a cracking piece 2 listen 2 but 2 play, im hating more and more every damned rehersal!, and can i just ask, at the molto allargando near the end, y the hell has the 2nd trombone part got wot it has!?, remember this is only the 2nd section area piece, not the 1st section finals or woteva(no disrespect 2 the 2nd section), personally i wud have switched the 1st and 2nd trombone parts around on the m.a. bars., o well, lets get the damn thing done and dusted and out of the way of any local music stands, lol

    Keppler: was hard work, but the bleeper finds all....
  3. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Well-Known Member

    If you don't like it, why don't you just say so! :lol:
  4. BigD

    BigD Member

    Have to defend people here, although I don't know any of them personally!
    First of all I think Kaleidoscope is a great piece of music. I'm lucky this year in that the two bands I conduct - One 2nd section and a Championship section one (as Resident) - have landed the best two (In my opiniom) test pieces this year. Have not got bored at all with either of them.
    Secondly, having been involved in some of these recordings, the band who recorded it (can't remember who it was and can't be bothered going to the car to find out!) probably had little or no time to prepare it. I've done recordings where the music came out of the poly bag during the recording session. Not saying this was the case in this instance (anyone care to let us know?) but would put a little money on it. :wink:
    Mr Sparke should be congratulated on the consistently high standard of music he writes. I presume that as you are bored with it your part has been perfect every time you've played it for the last few weeks!!
    Rant over!

  5. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Fodens with Richard Evans

    Sorry - not good enough. For a product that people are expected to pay for it is severely flawed.
  6. sunny_jimbob

    sunny_jimbob Member

    Try playing the bass bone part, where it switches up and down more! But it is supposed to be a test, not a walkthrough! And a test it is, especially the two bars you mention! (nastiest bit of the whole piece in my opinion!)
  7. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    if you're bored with the 1st trom part you're not doing it right... it may not involve running around scales like mad, but there's so many parts that need excellent technique and acute awareness of the rest of the band. And referring to the section you mentioned, I don't see why the 2nd trom part shouldn't have that bit, they're sitting next to the bass trom and so have the best chance of playing it together, all it takes is a bit of practice!! There's another section where 1st has a long note while the 2nd has a bit of tune, which I wasn't sure about at first, but it doesn't cause me any distress, I have a feeling mr sparke may have thought the 1st trom player would have bigger lungs...
  8. BreadOfHeaven

    BreadOfHeaven Member

    Guess it's all about opinions. Don't suppose Mr Sparke will be losing any sleep over it anyway

    IMO I think it's a great piece and I've enjoyed it since we brought it out. Especially like Variations 2 and 4. Think they're gorgeous and the piece retains that familiar exciting rush to the end! Could trip a few bands up in trying to get there too fast :lol:

    Agree about the recording. Isn't the best at all. I think I'm right in saying it wasn't recorded especially for the CD. One thing my MD has had probs with is the tempos. esp in Variation 3. And Mr Evans will be adjudicating us!
  9. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    I've mentioned elsewhere on these boards about the Regional CD recording for Leighton Lucas' Symphonic Suite coming out a whole tone too low when it was used for the 2nd section areas! I don't think, however, that the Regional CDs should ever be used as a 'benchmark'. (Even if the conductor on the CD turns out to be your adjudicator). Nevertheless, they should be useful as a 'guide' and a recording riddled with cock ups isn't really on.
  10. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    I haven't seen the music and have only heard the Foden's recording, but I find it very attractive music. Too bad that so many players judge a piece solely on the merit or otherwise of their particular part: so short-sighted!
  11. 1stly, i apologize 2 keppler 4 the 1 moderated swear word i accidently used in my 1st post in this topic, 2ndly, ive already mentioned im not keen on the piece in another topic which mr sparke already knows about coz he replied 2 that msg 2, 3rdly, tristan is a horrid piece, i personally like vizcaya and partita, those 2 r in my view the best pieces this yr, the music involved in those 2 pieces is really good 2 both play and listen 2, and i wud image 2 conduct aswell., the coventry variations puzzles me a bit, can't understand y the arranger has used an xmas carol 4 theme and variation, i give him credit 4 originality i spose, just not sure it was the best idea 4 a piece 4 the areas being as its nowhere near xmas, lol

    TIMBONE Active Member


    ju33les and timbone are getting married on 18th March, and they are including the slow movement of Kaleidescope in their wedding music, from the regional test pieces CD may I add!!!
  13. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Re: kalaidescope

    The slow bit isn't actually that bad. So it should be OK.

    I'm sure it'll be fine and the very best of luck for the day.

    TIMBONE Active Member

    can't spell

    I can't spell Kaleidoscope, (is that right?), but if I can write music like Sparky does, then I'm 'getting there'. Of course, as Sparky knows, (hope you don't mind me calling you that Sparky), us composers/arrangers suffer fools gladly. It is usually quasi musicians who don't write music who criticise most, and /or there is often an element of jealosy. It is difficult to handle when it first happens, especially when it's someone in your own band. If your music is good, you often get comments like, "I played that a few years ago" - suggestinf that you are not good enough to do it yourself, you must have copied it.

    Flixton Band is the first band I have played with, where my own music is accepted with respect.
  15. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Re: can't spell

    Not sure if you were responding to my post or not. If you were then I would just like to clarify that my comment:

    "The slow bit isn't actually that bad. So it should be OK."

    was referring to the playing/recording not the piece. I think Kaleidoscope is fantastic. It's the actual playing/recording that is suspect.

    Just thought I'd clear that up as I am certainly no fool.
  16. James McFadyen

    James McFadyen New Member

    Re: can't spell

    Tim, I can totally relate to that 100%! As I read this thread it never ceases to amaze me the audasity some ppl have. ppl r critising Philip Sparke, knowing that he's on here, questioning his methods and doing the 'I wouldn't do that if I wrote it' kinda speil. However, I think Philip (I don't mean to sound patronising in any way here) handled it well and diplomatically. Something a some of us composers have to develop yet - - - - - - It's a working progress! :wink:

    I don't wish to make a big thing out of jealousy, but I believe, even if subconsiously (See Tim, ur not the only one who has trouble spelling big words ;) ) that's quite an element to most crititism. There is no one more skeptical and critical than the composer himself, constantly making anaylsis his own work and always questioning his own methods. For someone else to question a composers methods is not polite IMHO, (different for those not quite at the advanced stage yet) You may not like the work, but it doesn't mean to say it's wrong. If someone really believes the 2nd Trombone part shouldn't be written that way, they should go and write their own music and see if they could do better than the Brass Band king himself, Mr Philip Sparke. :)
  17. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    May I just point out that, as the instigator of this thread, the subject matter was the recording and playing of the music - NOT the music itself.

    I love Kaleidoscope and I don't think there is a Philip Sparke piece that I dislike. But everybody is entitled to their opinion and if they dislike a piece they are quite entitled to say they dislike it and why they dislike it - you may not agree but for goodness sake respect their opinion.
  18. Razor

    Razor Member

    I think the piece is a great choice of test for 2nd section bands. I'm enjoying rehearsing it and I'm looking forward to playing it next week.

    True, the tempos in some areas of the regional CD recording are quite a bit off whats marked. As the piece was recorded as part of the 'programming' for another CD by Fodens and not specifically for the regional CD I don't think it should be regarded as the definitive interpretation. For the recording Mr Evans chose tempos that he felt worked for that type of performance and was not going to risk losing points for doing so. :roll:

    The big question I suppose is under contest conditions how will Mr Evans score bands in relation to this particular aspect.

    Time will tell. :?:

    TIMBONE Active Member

    Re: can't spell

    Not sure if you were responding to my post or not. If you were then I would just like to clarify that my comment:

    NO :oops: :D and thanks for the good wishes. I was responding to the guy with a long name who criticised the music itself.
  20. MRSH

    MRSH Supporting Member

    Re: can't spell

    OK no worries.