Iwan Fox's call on 4br for the gracious patronage to be scr@pped

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by JR, Sep 20, 2005.

  1. JR

    JR Member

    I have to agree with Iwan - it's high time this archaic, risible and quaint practice of reading out a "message" from her majesty (who to my knowledge has never been to the Open whether at the King's, Free Trade, Bridgewater or Symphony Halls...) was consigned to British Open history.
    I'm afraid the "gracious patronage" may have had some resonance at Belle Vue circa 1955 but not in the 21st century - and we could do without the red book national anthem dirge from band no 1
    Question is - should we replace her with someone else? ...(not Prince Harry)

    john r
  2. jim

    jim Member

    some would say david king, or imagine Richard evans! maby the great harry mortimar if he was alive, I propose that god save the queen scr@pped and jeruselum played instaed just like the cricket it is the british open after all!
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 20, 2005
  3. Majoresteve

    Majoresteve Member

    The Queen might not have been to any contests, but so what?
    The fact is she is the highest "authority" and she should be respected for that. in my opinion she acts as a central point on which to focus the nations (or the contests) people.
  4. LeDragon

    LeDragon Active Member

    Replace her with Peter Kay.

    Seriously though, I think that if they have to have a message read out, it should be by an eminent brass band musician of old - I think it would have a lot more feeling for sure. And god save the queen should not be played.
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2005
  5. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    They read out a message from the Queen! That's ridiculous. It's even worse than playing the national anthem. Definitely get rid of it.
  6. David Francis

    David Francis Member

    I am a Welshman, but I believe that we should honour the history of Great Britain. We are being assailed from all sides, and the brass band movement needs to be aware of the political framework within which it operate. I think that a message from the Queen is fine and playing the British National Anthem is a must, even if we do not like it. There are far greater forces at work than the activities of the brass band movement and we all should make ourselves very much aware of these movements. Not only is the brass band movement under threat , but so
    is our whole culture, and that is being questioned at every turn. Note the comments about the last night of the proms. Much too British!!!
    Although it is time that the English and WELSH Cricket Board should be recognised as the EWCB.
    Dai Francis.
  7. Brian

    Brian Member

    Why do you want to get rid of OUR NATIONAL ANTHEM, are you not proud to be British ? There are many nations around the world that don't have a Monarch, we should be proud that we still do and show her the respect by continuing to play Our Anthem, what ever it may be ( if in the future it is changed )
  8. FlugelD

    FlugelD Member


    English jingoistic ****?

    Even worse than the 'national' anthem whose fourth verse asks for help in subduing the rebellious Scots?

    I'll save the deleter a problem - get tae ****.

    The 'cricket' isn't British... - the 'Open' is.

    Find a 'national' anthem - maybe 'Rule Brittannia' - but 'God save the Queen' isn't it. Nor is 'Jerusalem', bya long chalk. But, if necessary, have a message from the monarch, if it's heart-felt (?) and all-encompassing.

    (BTW, why does the first band on-stage at Scottish contests have to play the anti-Jacobean dirge that was an anti Scottish/Jacobean propoganda coup almost 300 years ago? (AKA the 'National' anthem'?))
  9. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    Why proud? At the risk of repeating myself from other threads, why should we be proud of not being anti decomacracy and anti equality?
  10. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    Interesting debate folks, but I can already feel the tension starting to rise!
    Let's remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion, so please repect this and ensure that we discuss the topic in hand and not resort to an on-line brawl.

    Thanking you in anticipation

  11. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    I think it is perfectly possible to be proud to be British but not necessarily want to keep the monarchy, at least not in its present form. As for the anthem, it is so intrinsically linked to the monarchy itself it is very difficult for anyone without monarchist feelings to summon up much enthusiasm for singing it or playing it.

    I certainly don't see the need to refer to the royal patronage from the stage, but if they want to pay for an advert in the programme that's fine by me ;)
  12. Lotta

    Lotta Member

    I do think its a little sad how people feel about playing the National Anthem - but thats your opinion.

    I personally feel a sense of pride when we play it but I must admit, as I am used to playing it, I don't think I know all the words!

    I say keep the national anthem.... not sure about a statement from Her Maj though. I agree with Gaz about statement though
  13. yorkie19

    yorkie19 Active Member

    Utter ****

    I'll play the National Antherm under protest but no message from the Queen. It's high time we ditched this archaic tradition.

    If the anthem was about Great Britain and Northern Ireland then I'd be only too happy but since the anthem is about a figure who I would replace in a moment, I really struggle with playing it. Give me a Republic any day of the week (or even a Confederation!)
  14. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    I'm not getting involved in this debate - I can feel my blood pressure rising immediately, but then I am an ardent Royalist!! :)

    I will just ask though - who is to say the Queen isn't a fan of brass bands? Just because she hasn't been to the Open means nothing - I'm a huge fan of brass bands, and I've never been to the Open either! Does anybody who has contributed to this thread so far actually know for sure whether she likes bands or not? Supposing she is a fan, why shouldn't she contribute with a message of goodwill? Who exactly does this hurt? From where I'm standing, all it does is delay (by a mere minute or two) the arrival of bandsmen getting to the bar!!!

    The Queen is the figurehead of this country, and the British Open is one of the pinnacles of world banding. She should be represented, IMHO.

    I'm sure Mr Blair would be more than happy to contribute a message of goodwill when he is elected President of the UK by the anti-Royalists:eek:. Time to emigrate.......

  15. nickjones

    nickjones Active Member

    Well as most of the major competitions are run by the Sally Army why dont all bands play a sally army march or a few verses of the "Founders Hymn"
  16. Rapier

    Rapier Supporting Member

    I should think Her Majesty does like Brass Band Music! I mean, she likes the Bagpipes* for Heaven sake! Anything must be an improvement on those!!

    As for the National Anthem, it is a dirge, but it is still THE National Anthem and should be played! Too many of our traditions are being eroded. What next, s**** marching in the Army as it seems to serve no real purpose?

    * The defintion of a Gentlemen, is a man who can play the bagpipes,

    but doesn't!

    (For some strange reason the swear blocker is blocking a perfectly normal word!)
  17. Pythagoras

    Pythagoras Active Member

    Following your argument, surely everybody who likes brass bands but has been to the open should be able to show their support by having a message read out at the open, afterall, we wouldn't want to show that people get favouritism because of who their parents are, would we?

    Also its highly unlikely that if we went for a president, it would be the same person as the pm, it would more likely be like the model in Germany or Ireland where the President is like our Queen but elected, and so you can get rid of them, and they can come from all walks of life not just the blue-blooded.
  18. DaveR

    DaveR Active Member

    Blow, I've been dragged into this after all!!

    I think it would almost certainly not be a presidentship according to the German or Irish model that we would adopt - it would be more along the lines of an American president who has overall control of everything, and who was voted in because he was popular rather than having any particular aptitude for the job. I completely fail to see what advantage this would bring to Britain - it wouldn't cost us any less money, certainly wouldn't attract the number of tourists to the country that the Queen does, wouldn't inspire the same respect worldwide, and definitely wouldn't have the same lifelong commitment to the country that the Queen has shown from the moment she was born. From what I have seen from visits to countries that do not have a Monarchy is that many people in those countries would swap their Presidents for our Queen any day of the week.

    Showing favouritism because of who their parents are is by no means limited to the Royal Family! It happens throughout all levels of society. What about children of poor parents who are on the receiving end of pressure to go to University, seemingly just because they come from poorer families, rather than any apparent consideration of their intelligence? Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against children from poor families going to universities, but they should be going there because they are clever, not because their parents are poor, which is increasingly what seems admission policy is based on these days.

    There are plenty of other examples of this "favouritism" too, but this is so far off topic I had better stop!! Sorry Mods!

    You have managed to misinterpret my argument quite spectacularly, but as this topic is one that is always guaranteed to get me hot under the collar I'd better drop out of this discussion now!

    Hand me the prozac, somebody. ;)

  19. NeilW

    NeilW Member

    I would think that there are some practical advantages to playing a piece before the testpiece. It doesn't really matter what the piece is, but the National Anthem is as good as anything.

    • It gives the adjudicator a chance to hear the accoustics of the hall
    • Its probably also an advantage to the 1st band - they get the feel of the hall and settle before they have to play "in anger" (might help make up for drawing first!)
    • It sets a formal tone to the proceedings

    I must admit I've never played first in a contest, so haven't ever had to do it...

    As far as I've heard, the Queen's only comment on the NA is to not take it too slowly! We didn't on the 2 occasions I've played it for her in the past.

    If the Queen is Patron of the Open, then it probably IS appropriate to play it, in the same way as the military have it played prior to the toasts at formal dinners. (I've never had the time to get to the Open, so have never seen a programme - which presumably has "the message" printed in it, doesn't it?)

  20. BoozyBTrom

    BoozyBTrom Member

    i would say most of the other countrys around the world have and anthem where the lyrics describe thier country or how they feel about thier country ( i would hazzard a guess at not all before i am shot down.)

    Ours is about a person. Utter rubbish. I am proud to be British ( Yorkshireman 1st mind.) But our anthem is archaic and should be dumped for an anthem that refects our history as a country and its place in the world to day. Not the Evil Empire builder we used to be.

    there grumble over.

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