Its Been Nagging Me!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Euph-Bari, Feb 12, 2004.

  1. Euph-Bari

    Euph-Bari Active Member

    Right, I've noticed on some bands sites and other places that it says
    they are, say : a 3rd section band locally and 2nd section nationally (or which ever way round).

    How does this work out - I just don't understand - how can you be in two sections. :S

    I'm Sure someone can clear this up for me.

  2. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    West Sussex
    The Southern Counties Association (SCABA) has nearly 80 bands, at least 25% of which are National 4th section or don't compete in the regionals, and I think only 3 member bands are national Championship section. SCABA has no 4th section and several bands are graded 1 section higher than their National ranking. Gradings are assessed based on performance in the association contests, independent of the regional rankings.

    Given the uneven spread of bands across the sections, and the ridiculously high numbers competing in the L&SC regionals, imho this system is fair and provides a much better balance across the sections. Obviously the standard of bands in our area is a big factor here though, and I don't know how its done in other associations.
  3. JessopSmythe

    JessopSmythe Active Member

    Pontyclun, South Wales
    Don't know exactly how it works everywhere, but I would guess that it's fairly similar.

    Bands in this area are registered with the Welsh Brass Band Association and, until recently, the Welsh standings were decided by the results of 3 local contests.

    National rankings are decided on the results of qualifying British Brass Band Association events (eg The Areas)

    So a 2nd section band that's had a good run in the local contests (usually the bands in south wales since that's where all the contests are held; but that's a whole other topic) could find itself being promoted to 1st section in wales in the same year as a bad area result sees them dropping to 3rd section nationally. It's rare to have this 2 section gap but it can and does happen.

    Hope that makes sense :?
  4. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    This is all nuts and it's always confused me too. Here in Scotland your area ranking is your national ranking, so a band promoted up a section at this years Scottish Championship will also go up a section as far as national (UK) rankings are concerned. Likewise a band that goes down will go down a section nationally too. Perfectly simple and clear.
  5. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    We have a bizarre system here in East Anglia!

    At the local association contest we have 4 sections. Championship, A, B + C

    This year the Championship section will be made up (assuming all eligible enter) of a Championship (nationally) band down thru a 2nd section band, thru 4th and even a band who do not enter the areas! To make it even harder imho the bands have a choice of 2 pieces to give lower graded bands a better chance. They have to chose Pagentry or Essence of Time!

    In Class A, which is mainly made up of bands who dont compete at the L & SC contest there will be a 2nd section band (nationally) competing!

    I believe, that the contest should be graded on your national grading and then an open class for non-competing!
  6. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    It's all a very confusing system in which most people don't understand... or in some cases don't give two monkeys...

    But it's all to do with points and stuff in contesting locally and Nationally....

    mmm :roll:
  7. Aidan

    Aidan Active Member

    Bergen, Norway
    il go with the monkeys
  8. spookybiking

    spookybiking Member

    for instance, last regional and year before, my bands in the second section and yet we had a local championship section band in our section. but they have gone up now i think. sum unfair things go on i must admit
  9. Euph-Bari

    Euph-Bari Active Member

    Thnx thats KINDA cleared it up - or has it made it worse -never mind
  10. Lauradoll

    Lauradoll Active Member

    As far as I can understand it.....

    in some local contests the Championship section is the 1st and championship section put together so some first section bands can be "local" championship section. I'm not so sure about the lower section thing though.

    Much simpler in Scotland. You play in the section you're in. End of story. Perhaps it's because there are less bands. Or maybe just that the people there are simpler....l..
  11. flugelgal

    flugelgal Active Member

    I prefer to think we're better at making rules, don't you agree Lauradoll? :roll:

  12. Lauradoll

    Lauradoll Active Member

    That's it!! :wink: :wink: :wink:
  13. Roger13

    Roger13 New Member

    Reference the East Anglian system, I see that 'Chunky' is inferring that there is a choice of two pieces in the 'championship section' in order to give 'lesser' bands an easier choice. Essence Of Time is recognised as a handful for ANY band so I can only assume that he believes Pageantry to be easier. Hmm, If only I had a pound for every time some naiive person had labelled a piece 'easy'! I recently attended a major contest where that 'easy old warhorse' Rhapsody In Brass was set for the 1st Section. It was amazing how many of them didn't even get close to it.
    Getting back to the contest in question though, you do have to scratch your head a little when you see nationally graded Championship bands pitted against 2nd & 3rd section bands.....
  14. neiltwist

    neiltwist Active Member

    there are two types of system that each band can be in:



    the national competitions include things like the area, pontins etc. and are supposed to keep bands from all over the country of the same standard in the same section. As there is a bias to the north of good bands, the championship sections are fuller in the north, and emptier in the south.

    the local ones are run by the local committees (usually). Like the SCABA contest at brighton/hove and folkstone, and are intended to keep bands local and mean there is no requirement to travels hundreds of miles.

    sections wise you have 5 sections in the national system, and normally 4 in the local system. They are each individual 'leagues'. However if you enter a 'local' competition from a different area then you can enter in the same section you are in your own area.

    In the olden days the national system used to be champ, 2, 3, 4, before the 1st section was added, so often the 1st section is added to the championship section if there are only 4 sections (at both championship and local contests).

    clear? :dunno

    some of this may not be entirely correct or just plain wrong, but as far as i know, it is correct.
  15. Straightmute

    Straightmute Active Member

    Many people feel that National Gradings are unreliable since they are based on just one contest per year. If the test piece doesn't suit your band, if the adjudicator takes an irrational dislike to something you do, or if you're amongst three or four bands who should really be graded a section higher (when only two are promoted) you may find that your band is held back and therefore 'incorrectly' graded.

    Local gradings are often based on more than one result per year and may take into account the whole range of the band's contesting activity.

    I'm certainly not a fan of having two systems but local gradings sometimes seem to be borne out of a justifiable frustration with an inflexible national system.

  16. Euph-Bari

    Euph-Bari Active Member

    aha! starting to make sense of it now :wink:
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