In the market for Bb/F Tenor Trombone or Bass Trombone

Discussion in 'Classifieds' started by Ronan Doherty, Apr 13, 2016.

  1. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    I'm a Tenor Trombone player by trade but I'm looking for either a Bass Trombone or Bb/F Tenor trombone that will allow me to pick up Pit orchestra / show work. My budget is around £1000. I'm open to a good second hand instrument or could be persuaded otherwise after listening to members' recommendations on the lower end of the 'New' market such as JP / Rath etc... any advice greatly accepted.
  2. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Active Member

    If you have the skill to do such work then you will no doubt have had a few good teachers, have a chat with them as they may well have done such pit work themselves and/or be able to direct you to those that have.

    The best site for non brass band Trombone specific questions is the USA based trombone forum, it would be worth asking your question there.

    What do you play at the moment and why do you feel it might not be suitable for pit work?

    I think that in your position I'd be visiting some rehearsals and talking directly to the musicians doing the shows to see what work there is, what instruments they use, and what music they play - and get information on pay.
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
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  3. MoominDave

    MoominDave Well-Known Member

    £1,000 doesn't go all the way when buying a bass trombone. Single trigger you'll be able to get, which is good for most purposes. JP Rath are okay. Wessex are doing some interesting things with designs. £2,000 would get you most things, including some desirable items (e.g. the occasional Rath R9 that someone is keen to sell).

    Quality 2nd hand is where the value is - you ought to be able to find a Bb/F instrument of desired size from medium-small tenor to bass for that budget. Single-trigger suggestions:
    .508: King 3B/F
    .525: King 3B+/F, Bach 36B, Conn 79H
    .547: Conn 88H, King 4B/F, Bach 42B
    .562 (bass): Conn 72H, Conn 70H, Conn 71H, Conn 110H, Bach 50B, Holton TR183

    Then there are many double trigger bass models that might happen to pop down into your price bracket 2nd hand - Conn 62H, Bach 50B2, 50B3, Holton TR181, TR180, King 6B Duo Gravis, 7B, 8B, Benge 290, etc. You're basically looking for models that have been or were made for some decades that are or were standard designs for a reason. Forgive ugliness in a potential instrument - the outside is not important, but good cosmetic condition costs.
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  4. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    Thanks for the advice ... I currently play a Yamaha Tenor trombone YSL 6818 (without any attachment) which I have had for over fifteen years and which I like a lot. Some of the orchestrated parts in the shows that I do can drop below compass (Eb D Db C) especially when MDs ask you to cut and paste between parts Bass Trom / Tenor parts. So greater flexibility on my part would enhance opportunities ( either as Bass Tbn parts or Tenor).
  5. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    Thank you for your advice... that will help me focus my search bit more.
  6. 2nd tenor

    2nd tenor Active Member

    It seems to me that you play a Bb (only) large bore Yamaha Trombone and that your're looking to add just a few pitches below it's available range. I take it that you are a bass clef player and that the pitches you name above are in Concert pitch.

    To my way of thinking it's always best to keep things as simple as is practical and change as little as possible. Logically, to my way of thinking, that means buying a closely similar Trombone to yours but with an F section (say a YSL 682 G). I understand that Pits have little space in them so suggest a closed wrap and my own belief is that a large rotary valve both delivers the goods and is cost effective. Staying with a 0.547 bore and a Yamaha will likely make it easier to switch between your two trombones and if your're very lucky some parts might be interchangeable - handy when you've got a damaged slide.

    Someone like Vagasbound (professional player) could give you much better advice and you might like to send him a personal message, my comments are just those of an amateur player suggesting what he might do in a similar position to yourself.

    I hope that the above helps.
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  7. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    Yes that's right. I'm just looking to add a few notches at the bottom end. Thank You ... your advice makes a lot of sense as I do like my existing Yamaha instrument.
  8. Thornybank

    Thornybank Member

    I can do a King 3B Bb/F ex symphonic player. From 1989. Great condition. Fantastic slide.
  9. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    I have always blown a large bore tenor and prefer the 'fuller' sound so I would be getting into unknown territory here. What price were you thinking of?
  10. Thornybank

    Thornybank Member

    Let's PM the conversation?
  11. I have 2 basses for sale. A Reynolds double dependent and a Conn 70h single valve. Both are less than a grand. Message me for more info. Bob
  12. trombo

    trombo Member

    I have a Bach Strad 50BGL B3 Bass Trombone advised on here. I am looking for around £1600 ono plus packing and postage of £20.00. Message me with your email contact details and I can send photos.

    The trombone will be available shortly. .
    For further details and to make an offer please pm me or email me

    Looking forward to your replies and thank you for looking.

    With every good wish,

    trombo/Steve Ford
  13. Thornybank

    Thornybank Member

    If you are up for a big bore blow, I have a '76 Bach Strad 50B2 in fantastic nick. Ex-symphony player. £1500.
  14. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    it depends on the show and the version , the previous orchestration of Les Mis for example was a single plug bass show but the part had a couple of pedal c!s and went up to an Ab above the treble clef stave if memory serves, but equally I would not want to play a show like 'Thouroughly modern Millie' on a large bore as it is 20,s type jazz with a lot of high fast solo tune muted stuff.

    Edits on the other hand was a Bb/F show again if memory serves

    so if you are getting put work then you need the right tool for the job, also a full set of mutes and be able to read all cleffs and transpose the odd French horn part!

    If you are serious about pit work then invest in the tools of your trade small bore straight. Maybe a .525 Bb/F as well as large bore a single plug bass such as a Yamaha 321 also a euph and then you have to spend time playing them!
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  15. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    Thanks for that advice ... you speak a lot of sense. I bought a cheap old Yamaha Bb/F because it is very like my existing model (without F attachment ) to get my head around the alt positions before I would consider anything more expensive but I get a sense already that an Open wrap model would be more free blowing on the F attachment. Is the Yamaha 321 a student model entry level to Bass Tbn?

    Yamaha YSL643ii Tenor Trombone with F Extension, Well Used But Plays Great.
  16. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    Avoid open wraps for pit work as often their is not enough room behind you for the extra tubing, sounds silly but true, and the yammie 321 was based on the conn 70 H

    And I have heard the difference between what is a pro horn described thus ' an student horn is a Rath or Shires or any other boutique horn that either their parents have bought a pro horn is the one he bought for 400 dollars after getting the car repaired and shoes for the kids!'
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  17. Ronan Doherty

    Ronan Doherty New Member

    Thanks for your advice. Much appreciated.
  18. Vegasbound

    Vegasbound Active Member

    Also you need to be an excellent sight reader ie first time I read the book for Sweeney Todd was a Saturday matinee after a 60 mile dash to cover for a friend who was the regular player as he had to take his daughter to A&E so I sight read the whole show.

    Also remember that your equipment choice is vital it has to let you play the show twice on a Saturday but also blend with the others in the wind section and you will more often than not have a mic up the bell !
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  19. T Bone Funky

    T Bone Funky New Member

    You'll struggle to get a good bass trombone for that price, and if you're planning on switching between tenor and bass trom parts, then I'd focus on looking for a Bb/F tenor trom.

    I would recommend doing what someone else suggested above and going for an upgrade of your current Yamaha, especially if you like your current one. I played on a YSL with a closed wrap trigger for most of my high school years. Great little instrument. It should fulfill what you need. They retail at over £1000 brand new (there's different models ranging from £1200-£1700), but you should be able to pick one up second hand at just over £1000 I would imagine.

    If you're set on sticking at a maximum budget of £1000 though, then the JP Rath is he one to go for I'd say. Never played one in my life, but I'd always considered JP own brand instruments to me more for beginner-intermediate players.
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  20. T Bone Funky

    T Bone Funky New Member

    While an open wrap is indeed going to be more free blowing, having a closed wrap is better practice, since it forces you to push more air through. that's how I view it anyway ;)
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