I need somehelp.

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by CodyL18, Mar 25, 2006.

  1. CodyL18

    CodyL18 New Member

    How can I improve my double tongue? I have problems doing this type of tongueing.
    Any help is very valuable to me. Let me describe the problem I have.
    I use the syllable ta ka or du ga when I try to double tongue. I say it into the horn, but my notes just do not come out clear and sometimes a note gets skipped. I have problems doing 16th notes in a sequence.
    Can anyone help me?
    Thanks in advance!:)
  2. Tom-King

    Tom-King Well-Known Member

    Hi there
    (Welcome to Tmp :p)

    A couple of points that may help...

    When I was learning to double tongue I was advised to start with the "Slur and Double Tongue" excersizes in the Arban (not sure why but it seemed easier to start with than double tongueing a long line), then moving onto the ones without the slurs once you couldnt detect the Ku (or Gu).

    If your "ku"s arent coming out very nicely then it may be worth practicing playing the Ku's without the Tu's

    Hope that helps a little...
  3. Spud

    Spud New Member

    I thought I could double tongue until I got to college. Here Mr McCann made me slow the notes down to quavers at 120 beats per min until they were exactly even. Then and only then was the metronme turned up say 5 beats.
  4. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    - that is the key to successful double/triple (or combination) tonguing performance ... control!
  5. Trumpet Dave

    Trumpet Dave Member

    I had to learn to double tounge to play Trittico at figure 41. So I went to my teacher and he told me how to do it. When I walked to school for the week I just praciticed the double tounging without my mouthpiece. By the reahersal the week later I could do it quite well and i could dplay all the notes. I have to admit that it was a bit scrappy but i just kept practicing and it came smooth and clear!
  6. lewis

    lewis Member

    Guildford, Surrey
    It's already been mentioned, but no harm in saying it again.

    Slow, slow, slow, slow!
  7. horn__blower

    horn__blower Member

    Yeah, definitely agree with practicin just the Ku's if theyre not clear. if im playing a piece that needs lots of triple and double tounging, i tend to tutuku tuku etc along to the radio or whatever when im driving (only when im in the car on my own lol)
    also just practice it in band, during any piece, whether its necessary or not.
  8. axio

    axio Member

    Palmerston North, NZ
    Gotta have the air supply behind it. The ku syallable kinda works by blocking the airflow at somewhere other than the lips... without good air its easy to choke the ku syallable.
  9. GingerMaestro

    GingerMaestro Active Member

    If like with most people the Ku's are the problem, then get your hymn book out or just go up and down a scale or stayon the same note but produce the sound using the Ku sound keep doing this until you get a consistant sound and then slowly add the Tu sound maybe introduce it on every other note until that is clear and keep adding them in once that is clear build up the speed of the tu ku's gradually and see how you get on

    Good Luck
  10. persins

    persins Member

    Reading, England
    I'm in agreement with most of the previous comments. Definitely practice it slowly. Practicing only the Ku's is definitely a good plan. Also, try ku tu ku tu rather than tu ku tu ku to practice getting it even more even!

    The key is control as mentioned above.

    Something that hasn't been asked though is... How good is your single tonguing? Don't learn to double tongue too early otherwise it's possible to get lazy and forget how to single tongue fast too. That can lead to problems later. Remember, it is always better if you can single tongue it if possible.
  11. horn__blower

    horn__blower Member

    :eek: really? oh dear!!

    my single tounging is really slow, but never really struggled too much with double and triple tounging, so just do that loads, even when everyone else in the band doesnt need to. why is it better to single if poss?
  12. Steve

    Steve Active Member

    Because tu tu tu tu tu tu etc is a more consistent articulation than tu ku tu ku tu ku and should be easier to control! Is that right anyone?
  13. HSB

    HSB Member

    My own two penneth would be to suggest that the shape of the tongue in the mouth may hold the key.

    Whether it's "tu" or "dor" or whatever, the usual attack to a note involves the tongue going backwards after striking the front of the mouth. The problem is getting clarity with the tongue going forwards ("ka" or "gu" or whatever).

    I'd be tempted to split hymn tunes into quaver beats and produce each with a back tongue, ie. ka-ka-ka-ka, etc. It'll sound weird to start with and may be difficult, but you're teaching the tongue to form a note whilst going the opposite way.

    Hope this helps.
  14. diddle e donk

    diddle e donk New Member

    Swarmston upon windermere
    Great advice HSB do you do lessons? coupled with technique you must remember to push air to produce a quality tone. i was taught by a great cornet player kenneth Mullund who had a fine technique, he passed this on to me, after hard work i reached my goal of playing in a top 7 band in the yorkshire top section, so keep at it.
  15. Charmed

    Charmed Active Member

    I've not got so much a problem with doubling, my problem is moving the fingers in sync! :eek:

    But again, slowing it down and then speeding up seems to be the best practice.
  16. diddle e donk

    diddle e donk New Member

    Swarmston upon windermere
    yes i have allways noticed people who can double tongue very fast and clean can also double tongue slowly which is quite an art
  17. Marlon Bando

    Marlon Bando New Member

    Ooop north!
    Just resurrecting this thread!
    I'm sure I was taught 'wrong' regarding tonguing, so am trying to do something about it now. Being a french horn player, it was never needed to learn to double tongue!

    Forgive me for being perhaps silly, but when I try to SAY tu tu ku the ku sound seems to comes from from an entirely different part of the mouth? How do i transfer this into the mouthpiece?... I'm assuming that the 'normal' sound I make when blowing a raspberry in to the m/p is the 'tu' sound, so how do i get the 'ku'?
    I'm assuming this is wrong... in which case can someone tell me how I should be doing it?
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