Have we moved on?!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by grandfilth, Apr 11, 2004.


have bands got worse?!

  1. no

  2. yes

    0 vote(s)
  1. grandfilth

    grandfilth Member

    I've been listening to some realy old brass band music (well in comparison to my age) and as far as i can hear, the brass band movement in general has a far greater standard than it did even 10years ago.Intonation, dynamics, and general technique are definately better.

    Its just that I've heard people in the past say how bands are worse now because they don't play quiet enough. Well did these people go to the area and hear transfig. IX?!Also I have heard it said that "young players nowadays can't make people cry like they used to". I challenge anyone to go to the nybb concert next saturday and not be moved by atleast one of the esteemed principals!

    Basically I'm bored and talking shit, but what do u think, are people clinging onto beliefs to make themselves feel better or have we regressed?
  2. skweeky

    skweeky Member

    personally, i have noticed that euphonium players are developing a new sound... I cant explain the difference between the old and new sound but it has deffinitely changed imho for the worse

    JOCKBLAST! Member

    The playings better in general!
    Who knows!!
    Blessed with the gift of Sop!!!!!!
    Wish i was!!!!
    Hi Dave P.
    Off to Aus for too many beers in a few days!
    Will send my regards to all out there!
    Stevie boyxxx.

    JOCKBLAST! Member

  5. The sound has changed for the better because the old, as glorious and mellow as it was, became far too cloudy and nostalgic to meet the demands of the rising concerto profile of the eupho.

    The new is much more versatile and flexible to today's demands.

    Still, it's important to listen to the best of both and take different ideas to heart when learning.
  6. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    Of course!
    The standards are always getting better, new instruments help, as well as having the finest conductors and teachers around.

    It's the political side of banding that let's banding down most of the time... that has definatly got worse :shock:
    ... but what can you do :roll: :roll: :dunno (sack 'em... sack 'em all!!!!!)

  7. Rambo Chick

    Rambo Chick Member

    the brass band sound has developed for the better!!
    it is much richer, deeper and more powerful but has not lost control over the quiet dynamics in the slightest!!!

    I think brass bands have DEFINITELY progressed!!!!! :D


    utd coop yorks.

    ps. the flugel part used to double as rep and was not given its proper exposure, like it rightly has now so thats another bonus of todays banding!! :lol:
  8. Despot

    Despot Member

  9. Dave Payn

    Dave Payn Active Member

    Technically yes (but not by as much as some suggest)

    Musically, yes

    Where it hasn't progressed IMHO is not so much in the music but concert programming. I say this as a generalisation across all bands, not just top section. Sure punters recognize it but why do bands still shove in Floral Dance some 27 years after it was relevant? Why do we still hear a lot of bands playing John Marcangelo's Clog Dance? How long ago was Brassed Off? Some bands to seem to take anything that makes the movement famous and flog it to death and beyond, particularly when in the last few years in paricular, I think there's been a spate of excellent arrangements of all sorts of music, playable by most bands. But even amongst the 'recent arrangements' there's stuff which, whilst very good, shows a lack of imagination, even by some top bands in their concert/recorded programmes. For instance, just how many brass band recordings out there have Procession to the Minster and/or Riverdance in their track listings, excellent arrangements though they are?

    No harm in occasionally going back to old repertoire, but I think it's done too much fo my own liking.
  10. skweeky

    skweeky Member

    i dont totally agree with "young people just cant make you cry like they used to" BUT maybe because these young people havent been playing very long..... for example, at our last youth band rehearsal, our conductor (Peter Read) played 'share my yolk' and there was nothing spectacular about it.... (eg no wild vibrato or dynamic "ups and downs") but you just had to stop and listen. Hairs up on the back of your neck....

    So far i have not experienced this with any young players. (under 25 maybe) :roll:

    I am not taking any side in the argument its just the experienced cornet players (age-wise) have made their name and are therefore easy to notice because you know who they are.
  11. Dave Euph

    Dave Euph Member

    Definately ... the euphonium sound seems split between the 'classic' (think Groom, Clough, etc - no means a bad sound, in fact, still very moving!) and the 'modern' (think Mead and David Childs).

    Technically, the demands on players are far greater than they used to, the fact that Journey into Freedom is no longer seen as hard enough for top section bands speaks volumes.
  12. tim

    tim Member

    I think you need to listen to a couple of top bands and listen to those players that are doing there degree at somewhere like the RNCM or birmingham conservatoire and Huddersfield and salford uni's!!!

    There are some fantastic yound players for example Dave Thornton who is relatviely young and have heard him play recently and have played with him on a band course and his sund is fantastic... I can't see how someone couldn't be moved by it.!!!!
  13. VenusTromster

    VenusTromster Member

    Yes have to agree. Had this conversation a few times now after listening to some old recordings of bands!! :D
  14. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Of course, when listening to recordings, one must remember that recording technique and equipment has also changed greatly. Even 15 years ago direct-digital recording was still a new technology and many engineers hadn't yet caught up with the new techniques.

    However, listening to live bands indicates that things have changed. The bands I've heard seem to be clearer, tighter, and more in tune. The overall sound is brighter.
  15. Brian Kelly

    Brian Kelly Active Member

    Musically and technically, yes.

    However, the use of larger instruments all round the band IMO has made bands sound more homogenous. There is much less difference in sound between trombones and baritones, between baritones and euphoniums, between Eb and Bb basses than there used to be. Trombones playing pp passages find it more difficult to be heard these days, because the sound of the large trombones used in bands today does not come through the band in the same way that the sound of the smaller trombones used in the past used to do. Given that brass bands by definition have a limited range of tone colours to begin with (compared to a symphony orchestra), the overall effect has been to reduce even further those differences in sound and colour which do exist, creating a more bland and (dare I say it) less interesting sound.

    I also think that brass bands seem to be more conservative about new music these days. Look at the choice of music for the Open and the Championship section Nationals over the last couple of years. While a lot of excellent new music was played at the RNCM Festival of Brass earlier in the year, how many of those pieces have become part of those bands' concert programmes? There don't seem to be any bands that do the kind of pioneering work that, say, Grimethorpe and Elgar Howarth were doing in the 1970's.

    Having lit the blue touch paper, I shall now retire.
  16. grandfilth

    grandfilth Member

  17. drummerboy

    drummerboy Member

    Very true. However, having played baritone (and quite a few different models), I'd say the best baritone sound I've heard was the old SA Triumphonic instruments. Hard to describe to those who haven't heard them (a lot mellower is very broadly putting it), but those guys who have heard them will know what I mean.
    Put it very simply - look at the number of bands who can play Paganini Variations now. Would there have been that many 30, even 20 years ago? Probably not!
  18. Rambo Chick

    Rambo Chick Member

    of course there are under 25s with the gift to make hairs on necks stand up!! And i agree-the universities are one of the places you can find many talented young people-many of them teenagers in fact!!

    and 99.9% of them are under 25!!

    utd co-op yorks.
  19. skweeky

    skweeky Member

  20. grandfilth

    grandfilth Member