Gradings, Points, Sections, National, Local

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Al, Feb 3, 2008.

  1. Al

    Al Member

    There was some good discussion elsewhere about this but I didn't want to clog up the thread.

    Regarding grading can anyone help me. I understand that in the Regionals/Areas:

    If a band is promoted or relegated it takes the average points for the new section over the previous 2 years (eg 16 bands competed in that section the previous year so average 8 points)

    If a band withdraws (or doesn't enter ?) they get lowest points +1 , which I take to mean if there are say 11 bands in the section they get 12 points for not competing - please correct if I am wrong.

    Now if a band withdraws/doesn't enter and then gets demoted, does it still take the previous 2 years average marks for the new section rather?

    I also wonder what bearing performance at the Nationals has on awarding points and is there discretion by a Committee.

    And, if a band folds after not competing, there seems no point in demoting it so does that honour go to a band that might have thought it was safe?

    All these questions which I have previously been too frightened to ask!
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2008
  2. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    Full rules are vailable on Kapitol promotions' website, and your band's contest secretary should have a copy too.

    A band entering a new section takes the average points for the previous 2 years, regardless of how they get there.

    Performance at the National finals has no effect on grading, unless the band wins their section - in which case they are promoted.

    If a band fails to compete for any reason (including folding) they get last points +1. If they don't compete for 3years they are taken out of the grading table. Noone else is automatically promoted/demoted as a result, but another band could use it in their case to appeal for promotion.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2008
  3. Janet Watkins

    Janet Watkins Member

    It seems that Kapitol Promotions are updating their website at the moment.

    However, average points are calculated as (n + 1)/2 where n is the number of bands competing. In your example, above, 8.5 points would be awarded.
  4. JesTperfect!

    JesTperfect! Member

    I can sympathise there!
    When I was still playing for our 'B' band (the in-betweeny band for our youth and championship sections) I had no idea what grading and suchlike were all about!
    In fact, I played at 3 area contests before we qualified, and only then did I realise that we would be attending a 'final'-I had no idea that the contests I'd been going to were qualifiers!
    So if no-one tells you, you can't be expected to know! I'm not sure that I'm 100% clear on how it works, I just turn up, play & hope for the best!
  5. Accidental

    Accidental Supporting Member

    I'd agree to a point, but when it comes to contesting, the info is there for anyone who looks or asks, and one of the Nationals rules actually states that "ignorance of the rules" is not a valid excuse!! :wink:
  6. JesTperfect!

    JesTperfect! Member

    :oops: a good point!
    But I was only 12-who reads rules when they're 12?!
    I will, in future, try to be less ignorant when I go into something ;)
    Hoping to get to the nationals again this year, and I wouldn't want any ''ignorance of the rules'' to hold me back! LOL
  7. Owen S

    Owen S Member

    As long as your band's contest secretary understands the rules, and know what questions to ask to make sure using a player isn't going to break those rules, then it really shouldn't be a problem.
  8. Al

    Al Member

    Now I'm a big boy, I realise I should have the ability to find out the rules myself.

    I kind of knew how it worked but was never sure and everyone I asked who should have known (but obviously didn't!) always either waffled or changed the subject. Once Kapitol Promotions puts the new rules up I shall read and digest.

    I wonder what the new changes will be . . . ? Any guesses

    or even suggestions for amended or new rules in the future?
  9. louise0502

    louise0502 Member

    Would it not be the lowest points (i.e. 1) +1. So you'd always get two. Or is it done on who gets the most points is the worst? lol ok I'm confusing myself now, i'll go look at one of those websites mentioned above hehe.
  10. johnmartin

    johnmartin Active Member

    Its pretty simple. You take the numbers of bands that did compete in the section and add 1 to it. So say five bands competed in a section. They get points for their placings (1 to 5). So any bands that don't turn up get 6 points. The bands with the highest points after the area are in the drop zone.
  11. stuartw

    stuartw Member

    The new rules are essentially identical to the old rules with the words Besson -removed, there are no substantive changes.

    For the gradings the average marks and the points awarded for non competing bands are with reference to the number of bands playing on the day. So non competing bands get 1 place more than the number of bands playing on the day (the less points you have the better in the final grading tables)

    When you are promoted or relegated you get the average number of points for the previous years based on the number of bands that played that year- the 2 years for which you get an average mark may have had different numbers of bands competing so the average mark you get for each year may be different.

  12. Al

    Al Member

    Still being updated. Does anyone know when the new rules might be available?
  13. stuartw

    stuartw Member

    Hard copies should have been sent out to band secs as they have been given to all the regional secretaries for this purpose. Part of the rules is that Kapitol's written consent is required to reproduce the rules either in part or in whole so I cant post my copy here. Suggest that you ask your band secretary for a look at their copy. There really are virtually no changes compared to the rules that have applied for the past years, I understand that it was just an exercise to remove 'Besson' from the wording.

    Hope this helps

  14. Does anybody know what the rules are regarding relegation when bands tie for points over the three years. (For example, one band has come bottom of the table and is definitely relegated - the next three bands up have all got the same points total / average - who is relegated out of those three?)
  15. Roger Thorne

    Roger Thorne Active Member

    The rules state . . . .

    In the Championship, 1st, 2nd and 3rd Sections, the two bands with the lowest aggregate placings over the last three years will be relegated. In the case where two or more bands tie with equal last placing, then only these bands will be relgated. If two or more bands tie with equal second to last placing then these bands, in addition to the last placed band, will be relegated.

  16. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Which has always struck me as odd - it would make more sense that the band finishing higher of the two in the most recent regional contest was placed higher and remained in the same section. You could apply the same method for promotion.
  17. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    I must admit I prefer the Scottish system of the top two getting promotion. It reflects current form (if things go well on the day!).
  18. Will the Sec

    Will the Sec Active Member

    Yes and no, Tom. You can buy a band for one day.
  19. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Well, it's cheaper than over a 3 year period ... :oops: Perhaps the registration period of a player could be extended prior to the contest. Any exceptional signings could be dealt with at an area committee level?
  20. I have a query (well two).

    If you look at the grading tables (per MBBC website) for the third section. This is after the Areas 2007.

    In 2005 why did Syston get 8.5 and not 10?
    In 2006 why did Darley Dale get 9, when the star indicates that they didn't compete?
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2008

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