Glorifico Aeternum and ISB...

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Band Lads Army, Apr 17, 2005.


Do you like Glorifico Aeternum?

  1. Yes

    41 vote(s)
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
  1. This must be one of my favourite pieces. I was a bit disappointed when I searched the title on google to find comments relating to this piece on this site (i think) and more so the ISB's "Jubilee" album which it features on.

    For me I find Jubilee a superb album;people made comments kind of suggesting they felt the ISB play "safe" and don't risk too much relating to this album. The other slight disappointing comments were the ones made by someone saying this..

    "This band should be on the cutting edge of SA music, but it seems to prefer to play it safe instead.....
    Save your money!"

    Well each to their own but the ISB are absolutely top notch and can match the best. I can't think of much "safe" playing on the Jubilee CD and if they meant overall then that really is a bit of a joke. I suppose pieces like the aforementioned G.E and the likes of The Kingdom Triumphant, Journey into freedom etc..are pretty safe?! I'd also like to see bands knock out the march "Jubilee" which is only from the General series.

    Not many places where you can stick anything on the stand in the bandroom and nock it out straight away.

    At the end of the day the ISB is an absolute credit to the Salvation Army and I think most of the brass band world would agree they are of the highest order.

    It's nice that some people might criticise music SA bands come out with , but yet are quick to play Army pieces in their "outside" band.

    Sometimes the ISB ,might be playing safe ,but the thoughts and feelings for the listeners behind their playing are far more different from playing mathematical nonsense just to impress a judge and for him to say "you've won".

    Also the ISB can't play what people consider cutting egde if it isn't out there for our bands to play. Our bands don't really outside or non sacred music ,pieces often feature songs and the listener is not necessarily listening out for "cutting edge".

    Its a great testament to the SA that they can produce bands of this quality. You have to remember that there are far more brass players out there which outside bands can have than the amount for Army bands. For a start you have the be in the sa and be a soldier to play in the ISB.

    These are just my opinions and obviously everyone is welcome to their own opinion.

    Must say I do think Dean Jones is a bit of a genius with "Glorifico Aeternum".
  2. beard_4b

    beard_4b Member

    well said!
  3. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    The piece is also on the second WoB "Now that's what I call Brass!" compilation CD. That's were I heard it from...
  4. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    This piece is also featured live by the ISB on the Celebration 125 recording from the Gospel Arts Festival, RAH, 2004 (WoB 21319) and is the title track on the forthcoming New York Staff Band CD "Glorifico", due for release next month.

    As for playing it safe, the ISB often does not have the opportunity to play it safe. Every year since 1963 (or 1964?), they have been recorded live at the RAH both in solo spots and in an accompanying role. The solo spots have often featured new works (eg: The Holy War; Fantasia for Band and Piano; Princethorpe; the list goes on and on). I think they have demonstrated a remarkable consistency throughout those years that is to be commended.

    It's always difficult to compare SA and non-SA bands. Personally, I think the music will often speak for itself and, regardless of which band is playing Resurgam, Journey into Freedom, Glorifico Aeturnum or any other work with strong spiritual overtones, when the music is played well, both band and audience will be affected. That is the power of good music.
  5. Yes I agree with what you're saying.

    In terms of the "outside" (loosely worded word for people not in the SA used by us :biggrin: ) banding and SA banding , we only have to look at the great Eric Ball. A prime example of the general good relationship with outside bands is the Eric ball Dvd from the Nottingham Concert hall featuring the ISB and Black Dyke.

    For me though all the great works ,the holy war, kingdom triumphant ,song of the eternal ,exodus ,journey into freedom etc.. are more special when played by an SA band.

    Speaking of that Dvd it's good to see the two bands joining ranks in some fantastic moments ;just like Steve Cobb I really like "Never Give up!" and the the musicianship and quality of the two bands on the DVD is a credit to both inside and outside bands.

    Good to hear a new ,new york staff band cd on it's way

    Any salvationists out there, get "A walk on the light side" by Hendon it's brilliant.
  6. SuperHorn

    SuperHorn Member

    Cwmaman Band were fortuntate to play under the direction of Jonathan Corry playing three peices from SA repoirtioire and what a refreshing change. 1st & 3rd placing gained in Porthcawl / Yeovil.

    1. Jubliee March - not an easy march when played at a fair lick (as marked) Troms and Basses will tell you that.

    2. Mid all the Traffic - difficult to get you chops around after playing the opening march to completely change the mood and and set the right scene.

    3. Glorifico Aeternum - First thought - what a pile of rubbish - When percussion included - what a piece - fantastic finisher.
  7. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I think if the ISB put their products on sale to the public, they must expect constructive and sometimes unconstructive criticism about the music and performance... I know the ISB is held in high esteem amongst most Salvo`s but to me they are "just" another top quality band who produce CD`s for me to buy.
    To suggest that Salvationist musicians play at a higher intellectual and spiritual plane than rest of us is interesting to say the least, I suggest you listen to Grimethorpe`s rendition of New Jerusalem at the RAH in 1992 and then tell me that us "outsiders" are the musical neanderthals that you seem to be suggesting we are.
    I think the "playing safe" comment is a valid one, having attended a joint concert involving the ISB and `Dyke, the ISB did sound bland when compared with Dyke`s more edgy and vital pay your money and you make your choice.
  8. Scotty

    Scotty Member

    When i played with Kinneil we played this a few times, thought it was magic, especially when percussion was added!
    Played the third movement at Land O'burns and Whitburn contests and came 2nd and 1st respectively and sop player got instrumentalist prize both times, it was one of Mr Ramseys and the bands favourites for sure!
  9. They do though , if it wasn't for Army composers and outside bands using our music you wouldn't have much to claim that outside bands still did play to a high spiritual level. If you took all our pieces away you would find a huge whole in brass banding.

    That was also 92!, times have changed, ie attitudes to faith,church,SA etc..

    Grimethorpe produced an album in connection with the S.A

    But who's to say they actual got to the the meanings or feelings of the piece from a spiritual level or if they just liked the sound of them.

    Even though the cd's are available to anyone , the differences are very big to criticise the SA. Black Dyke are there to win competitions , the ISB are there to bring people to god , there is your difference.
  10. Yep I have the drum part for Jubilee with me and it's marked at a brisk 152 to a crotchet in 2/4, my dad couldn't believe the speed of it when he heard the recording but I showed him it is marked that. It must be one of the faster marches about.

    It is difficult to change the mood I agree. We have played Mid all the traffic after a brisker tune like "march in scipio". We changed it even more at one of our concerts recently ,we went from a quite piece involving a few drum rolls to the very up beat "Daniel" by Barry Gott, fun though!
  11. Cantonian

    Cantonian Active Member

    I had the privilege of playing Mid all the Traffic (and Jubilee) in a Cwmaman band practice. The music was given 100% attention and I knew the words associated with it so it was an intense few minutes for me.

    I feel that pieces such as Light of the World, Resurgam, Present Age and Glorifico Aeternium are musically excellent and when played well by any band can have the same spiritual effect on an individual who knows the background or the words. Equally if played not very well by any band it can have no spiritual effect on somebody whether or not they know the background.

    Several years ago I heard my favourite piece, The Present Age, played by a Salvation Army Band who tried to cover up their shortcomings with a 'busy' Powerpoint presentation. It is the only time that I have been left unmoved by this piece.A few weeks ago I heard the ISB and BAYV play Resurgam massed. It had no less spiritual impact because half the band weren't Salvationists!

    I suspect that there are many Salvationist bandsmen who like the Rhythmic content of Glorifico but may not know the words of 'Somebody prayed for me'.

    I play in the Canton Salvation Army band because I am a committed Salvationist, love the cameraderie and the music and because we are an essential part of worship. I do however think that our playing of Daniel, Motivation, Jubilee, Golden Slippers, Festive Overture, Treasures of Tchiakovsky and Gaelforce may be less likely to 'bring people to God' than Grimethorpe, BAYV, YBS, or any other good band playing a simple hymn tune well.
  12. IanHeard

    IanHeard Member

    I agree that the SA influence on mainstream banding has been huge, but I`d like to think we would have "muddled on" without it.
    I and others on this forum have been criticised for having an anti SA views, is it any wonder when "holier than thou" views like yours are posted.
    Both of my favourite Brass band composers were Salvationists, both ironically had periods outside the SA due apparently to the SA`s stifling rules and regulations.
    Black Dyke only there to win competitions?......Rubbish!
  13. Cantonian

    Cantonian Active Member

    There are a very large proportion of SA bandspersons with balanced views!
    (see my previous posting in this thread).
  14. "any wonder when "holier than thou" views like yours are posted."

    There was nothing wrong with what I said ,and the "holier than thou" usage in this context is bizzarre.

    SA regulations did used to be strict , as Salvationists were not allowed to football matches or to play in "outside" bands. That is why Eric Ball left ,but found his proper home again.

    Okay Black Dyke are there for enjoyment of music and for listeners to enjoy and win competitions ,I only used it that bluntly to show the analogy I was working on.

    To say that the ISB play it safe though , they are totally different ,they don't say they are the best ,they don't contest etc..And if SP&S doesn't churn out any big works they can only play what has been released by SP&S really.

    Anyway I know that there are many out there who are respectable about the SA ,and the relationship between Non SA banding is good. An example is to look at the fact the World of Brass is now owned by Sp&s , as is/was the British Bandsmen(not had it for a while!).
  15. drummerboy

    drummerboy Member

    I think you'll find that The New Jerusalem was written in 1992, just a year after SA music was 'released' to the general banding public. So I wouldn't have thought there would be much SA influence in contesting banding at that point.
    And I think you'll find Philip Wilby (composer of said piece) is a commited Christian, and whose wife is a minister. So spirituality I would say is 'genuine' in the music!
    The whole in contesting banding would not be that big if you removed all SA music. Bands would still play Resurgam and Journey Into Freedom. Even now, there aren't many SA pieces being played by contesting bands, not compared to how big the SA repetoire is. If the SA has a big an influence as you say, why don't bands play more music by such composers as Robert Redhead, Ray Steadman Allen, Leslie Condon et al?

    Times have changed. Church attendance (SA included) has almost certainly gone down

    Which could be said of SA music too. How many bands play Peter Graham's arrangement of Crimond and not know all the words? Doesn't mean they can't be moved by a good performance.
    YBS produced 3 SA music albums which contain some fantastic performances of SA music. Even if you don't know the associated words, you can still be moved by the music contained within them.

    And to showcase new music I believe? Hence why enough of it is from manuscript?
    And if the ISB were so concered about bringing people to God through spiritual music rather than music that simply sounds good, why would they play Paganini Variations? And also drop the fourth trombone player to come more into line with contesting line ups, when a lot of SA music, certainly used to be, scored for four tromones? (You only have to look at the number of trombone quartets within the SA repetoire)
    As an ex-Salvationist myself, such views seem very self centered around the SA and that contesting bands can't do SA music justice. Which is simply nonsense.
  16. carlwoodman

    carlwoodman Member

    Although the ISB does currently only have 3 trombones, it also has 3 baritones and 4 tenor horns.
    You have also rather assumed the reason why the ISB only has 3 trombones currently.
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2005
  17. Brian Bowen

    Brian Bowen Active Member

    If SADrummerJones were to check his facts he'll find that wasn't the reason Eric Ball left the SA.

    I believe "World of Brass" was always owned by SP&S.

    I fear SADrummerJones is given to making rather extravagant statements in this thread which does his cause little good.
  18. I'm only 18 and I was under the impression from the DVD and other information that he left for outside banding. Then he was with an outside band when he saw the Salvation Army and felt that was his real home.

    Correct me if i'm wrong
  19. PeterBale

    PeterBale Moderator Staff Member

    Eric Ball's resignation from officership came as a result of his contact with spiritualists, which was felt to be out of keeping with SA principles and procedures. The involvement with outside bands came after that, when people realised that here was a talented composer/conductor who may be available. Although he was later accepted back into official Army circles, he never again wore SA uniform.
  20. Thank you Peter for clearing that up ,the dvd doesn't go quite into all that if i remember.

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