Gender Testing

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Chat' started by Rebel Tuba, Aug 25, 2009.

  1. Rebel Tuba

    Rebel Tuba Member

    "New world 800m champion Caster Semenya has been asked to take a gender test, according to athletics' governing body. The International Association of Athletics Federations says it demanded the test three weeks ago amid fears she should not be able to run as a woman. The South African athletics federation insists it is "completely sure" that Semenya, 18, is a female." IAAF spokesman Nick Davies said the "extremely complex, difficult" test results were not due for several weeks.

    There lies the dilema, so we are bandsmen and bandswomen, surely we can come up with gender testing that lakes less than "several weeks".

    So here is my starter for 10...........

    Ask the person in question to reverse park a car in to a space long enough for a double decker bus (approx test length in time 7 secs to 7 mins)

  2. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    I will forget I read the last few paragraphs, why don't they just pull his/hers pants down???
  3. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    In a serious vein, it's not that simple, Stella. We live in an era of gender-reassignment surgery, where someone can be made to look as if they were one sex when in fact they are genetically the other. The goal of the IAAF is to make sure that a competitor does not have an unfair advantage, and they have a rather complex policy, which not includes surgery but a number of medical conditions which can influence a person's apparent gender.
  4. themusicalrentboy

    themusicalrentboy Active Member

    they've just found out she has testosterone leves 3 times higher than that of an average woman
  5. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    According to this article, this was already known (although probably not before the competition), and contributed to the IAAF's decision to do a full-scale gender test.
  6. Di B

    Di B Member

    This sort of thing always confuses me. I know nowadays a lot of people have gender reassignment and I am fine with that.

    What I don't understand is how/why official organisations haven't kept up to date.

    If the lady in question used to be a man but it now female in every way why can't she compete as a female?
    If someone commits a crime do they end up in a male or female prison? I have heard they end up in solitary prisons for their own safety but I don't know if that is true.

    To bring it back to a banding angle would the men only bands accept someone who has had gender reassignment? Either male to female or female to male? Do their constitutions deal with this?
  7. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Because there is no way that she could be "female in every way".

    Gender reassignment does not alter the person's DNA. A person who has had male-to-female gender reassignment is still genetically male (that is, they have a Y chromosome). Although many of the traits that make someone male are related to the hormones produced by the testes, there are also many traits which are expressed on the Y chromosome, and this will continue after the surgery. If these traits give a "woman" with a Y chromosome an advantage (in an athletic sense) over women who are genetically female (no Y chromosome), then that is unfair, at least in the view of many people.
  8. Di B

    Di B Member

    But surely transgendered people also take medication to reduce testosterone . This is why they get less facial hair, higher voices etc.

    I am also aware women can have unusually high levels of testosterone (as the woman in question might) yet this does not stop them competing.
  9. scotchgirl

    scotchgirl Active Member

    I think that it is disgusting that the governing body made this test public knowledge...there are many conditions, some serious, that could present with high testosterone levels, that this poor girl may not even know about. Its a matter of medical knowledge being she is under the scrutiny of the whole world, who are waiting to see if she's a real girl. She has no dignity left. I think its appalling.

    And before anyone starts...I do think that if there's an issue then she should be gender tested....but it should have been kept PRIVATE until the results were known...and even then I would say that it is completely up to her if she wants the test results made public.

    How would each of us like it if our medical history was made public in such an undignified manner?
  10. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    I think it's important to point out that this person has not yet been stripped of any results nor banned from competing. According to the policy document (linked in one of my earlier posts), the IAAF does NOT categorically exclude transgenders from competition. Their testing protocol is quite extensive and seems to be as balanced as it can be given the pressures of international competition.

    Your points are well-taken, and this is exactly why the IAAF has an extensive testing protocol. There's no single test that would be completely conclusive on its own.

    I rather doubt that Semenya is a transgendered individual. Male-to-female gender reassignment is rather radical surgery that is expensive and takes a considerable amount of recovery time. I think that it's rather unlikely that someone would have been able to finance such an operation without leaving a trail. And as far as I can tell, there is no break in her competitions long enough to account for a such a surgical recovery.

    I feel compelled to point out that the only thing that the IAAF did was announce that she was going to be gender-tested, citing challenges from other competitors. The information about the testosterone levels did not come from the IAAF, but was leaked by someone in the South African sports establishment, according to the published reports that I've read. The IAAF testing has not been completed, and will likely take several more weeks.

    And, frankly, the most common reason for high testosterone levels in female athletes is illegal doping.
  11. scotchgirl

    scotchgirl Active Member

    You say that in female athletes the most common reason is doping...but what about if you ignore the fact that she's an athlete? Does being an athlete mean that medical information about you can be made public without your permission? She could have any number of medical conditions...what if this poor girl discovers she is a hermaphrodite with internal male organs? She would be devastated, and humiliated with that information plastered all over the news.....I still think its disgusting, WHOEVER leaked the information should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.
  12. StellaJohnson

    StellaJohnson Active Member

    unfortunately she is a athlete, in the public domain because she has just won at the world championships, therefore her medical information in my opinion should be made public without her permission.
  13. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Not in the UK nor in the USA - the Data Protection Registrar ought to have something to say about data being released in this way - the "public interest" is NOT a category on anyone's DPA Licence and I doubt the USA Data Privacy laws are different.
  14. scotchgirl

    scotchgirl Active Member

    absolutely...whoever leaked this information should be ashamed of themselves...I have nothing but pity for this woman...
  15. Mr Guinness

    Mr Guinness Member

    .... or fella ........ :-?:tongue: (joke)
  16. scotchgirl

    scotchgirl Active Member

    you're naughty!! I'll get ya! lmao!!

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