Freelance Professionals, they get my goat!

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by baritastic, Jun 3, 2010.

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  1. baritastic

    baritastic Member

    Is anyone else tired of the so called professional players pontificating to us on this site.

    I don't post much, more of a lurker really, but this really does get on my nerves and I just wanted to see if anyone else feels the same.

    Im a keen amature player, and I respect completely the dizzy heights of the likes of Rod Franks and Dudley Bright, and I also understand that freelance professional players have to have a very high standard of playing, but the bottom line is:

    If you have never actually managed to get a position in an orchestra your not as good as those guys and should not pretend to be! If you never managed to get a job in an orchestra stop lecturing us as if you have.

    If players have held a position in an orchestra then left, like Dave Stuart or Huw Seenan, or even in a lesser orchestra like Tenerife, then fair enough, im not going to argue with you, but if you have never actually got a job then just have a little more respect for your amature counterparts.

    If a player has held a position at Dyke for 10 years in my book thats more diffucult and a greater achievement than playing with umpteen orchestras a year and doing 10 trials but never getting a job!

    You know who you are!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  2. steve butler

    steve butler Active Member

    I don't post that much myself these days (part time lurker), but I'm tired of so called keen immature players pontificating to us on this site.

    You know who you are!!!!
  3. toby hobson

    toby hobson Member

    Great stuff, couldn't agree more. As a true great of banding and orchestra's once said..Great players are great players, there is no such thing as orchestral and brass band players just good and bad players...........

    As it happens, most of the top pro players have come directly from banding (even one or two French horn players) those players can talk the talk and walk the walk as they have coped with what TOP banding can throw at you i.e lots of notes, fast playing, huge dynamic range, balance, tunning, playing clean, c.d standard contest performances, quality of sound, quality of projection etc etc etc, then they move onto professional playing where they learn to resent there job, to play the same music time and time again with out flipping and the amazing ability to play well with a shed load of ale on board......when your "professional" career has reached the dizzy heights of the occasional trial, some extra work on a token, orchestrally rarely used instrument and some regular work with the LSO (Leeds Symphony Orchestra) and the R.P.O (Rippon Philharmonic Orchestra) I (with all due respect) don't really want to hear about your professional outlook as Ive probably heard better players who do it for free week in, week out, players who strangely don't feel the need to pontificate to us mear mortals with such alarming confidence!!

    Well said O.P.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  4. GJG

    GJG Well-Known Member

    Utter nonsense.

    You seem to be overlooking the fact that many free-lance players choose to be such because it pays better than a regular orchestral position. Why assume that freelancers are actually looking for a full-time post? Some top players have left regular orchestral positions in order to become freelancers, not just because the pay is better, but because they prefer the freedom it allows. Some players remain in orchestral positions because they aren't good enough to make a living as a freelance musician ...
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  5. Andrew Norman

    Andrew Norman Active Member

    Of course many freelance players earn their livings without playing in orchestras at all...... The life of anyone trying to make a living out of playing (especially a brass instrument) is very difficult and I have great respect for anyone who manages to do so - I've spent the last 30 years trying !!
  6. Splitzer

    Splitzer Member

    Well you can stick me on the list. I've got a cv that reads like a whos who of music, but I'm pretty rubbish TBH. The problem with freelance is it is a much abused term used to describe varying states of unemployment.
  7. simonium

    simonium Member

    Stop being coy and name names!
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2010
  8. DMBabe

    DMBabe Supporting Member

    Am I the only one who's thinking surely some of these players don't play and have never played in brass bands full stop so why should they do it just to prove a point to a few people who seem bothered about it? I personally don't care who has played where. Opinions are opinions and we can choose to agree or disgree no matter what the person's so called playing pedigree is.

    Saying that why would non-brass banders hang out on a brass bander's forum? That's just plain odd! :dunno
  9. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    Wow, what a bitter little thread. About as valid as saying anyone that plays the baritone only does so because they can't cut it as a Euph player.
  10. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member


    last time I heard there weren't actually that many salaried trumpet positions

    Why not try and learn from the many and varied opinions you find on this and other discussion forums instead of instead of posting this kind of drivel!
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2010
  11. Blagger

    Blagger Member

    We all have posters who get on our nerves with ramblings about their previous experience of "guesting with Dyke" or having signatures stating all their glorious professional history eg. "Ex - billy blowhards band" etc.
    Just ignore them surely and read other threads - its big enough for all of us (TMP) ;)
  12. Blagger

    Blagger Member

    Yeah I know -my sig says i was at Salford :oops:
    Hardly the London Phil. ;)
  13. flash harry

    flash harry Member

  14. Jan H

    Jan H Moderator Staff Member

    That would be the quickest way to have this thread removed from the forum.
    May I refer everyone to the rules? especially section 2e

    So please keep the discussion civil and non-specific about individuals. Thanks!

    edit: a couple of previous post (+replies) have been removed
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  15. nethers

    nethers Active Member

    The mouthpiece is a place where we can all post our feelings and opinons freely with only a few reasonable common sense rules to adhere to. Some members are very inexperienced, some members are amongst the most respected brass players around. I find the wide range of opinions, whether I agree with them or not, and the arguments about them pretty reassuring, it's good that people care about brass bands.

    Some people write valid, informed opinions on topics, some people use the forum to try to obtain valid, informed opinons on topics and some people seem more interested in criticising those who don't subscribe to a certain approved set of opinons.

    I've written a lot on here that, with hindsight, was pretty stupid. I'd like to think I've also written some stuff that added quality content to a thread.

    At one point not so long ago I considered myself a 'freelance' (as that's where my money came from). Time moved on and I got a real job :) I would have never got a seat in a professional orchestra at the time, I honestly wasn't good enough.

    So, original poster, should I have restricted my opinions because of this?

    If you object to what someone has to say or how they say it in a thread, reply and do that, but if you object to a whole subset of brass musicians (who may not have the same opinion as you in general) you yourself are likely to become pigeon-holed within a subset of humanity I'm sure you'd rather not be associated with.

    I, for one, appreciate the colour added to this place by some of our non-brass band posters (supporters, Mum's, 'orchestral' players etc.) who throw a curve-ball in from time to time.

    Will you look back on your original post as a quality contribution? As poor contributions seem to be what you are protesting against I hope so.

    I'm with flash and blagger, some of the best content and questions on here are written by players who have never (and probably will never) play with Dyke etc.

    I enjoy the odd chuckle at peoples playing history, glad I'm not the only one! :p
  16. andywooler

    andywooler Supporting Member

    Jan: would you kindly explain why you edited this post - you have totally changed the context! I wrote "last time I heard there weren't actually that many salaried positions for trumpet players" (or something like that) - my point being that many of the trumpet positions will be filled by freelance players because of this.
  17. Chunky

    Chunky Active Member

    Because he can Andy. Remember this is pinky fluffy pc land where we must not upset anyone;)!
  18. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member


    Before JanH diluted it, this was a fairly nasty character assassination of me. Now, it looks like a nasty little side-swipe.

    However, I think I must be allowed some right-to-reply.

    Baritastic, you're entitled to have an opinion on things. We all have diverse opinions on all subjects - that's what makes the World go round. You are fully entitled to voice your opinion on this site and I, for one, have no issue with that.

    However, I do take issue with the fact that the OP was a very thinly-veiled dig at me, done so in a very cowardly way. Baritastic, I didn't sleep very well last night and am quite upset by your comments. I hope you are pleased with yourself. Toby Hobson, don't get drawn in mate!

    Anyway, life goes on. I must set the record straight on a couple of points though:

    I had a trombone job from 1998-2001, which I left as freelancing was better paid.

    Anybody that doubts my level of playing, I'll happily email them a few sample pages of my diary - suffice to say, I'm not sure what my kids look like sometimes.

    I earn about 35% of my income from 'obscure' instruments. The rest is from tenor/alto trombone.

    Lastly, I held a position with a 'top' band for a couple of years, but left because of other work commitments. I sometimes dep on 1st trombone with Grimethorpe and have played the odd solo with them too.

    So, let's stop the nastiness. I love brass bands, they're in my blood. Should I go away because I 'play off stage steer horn' occasionally? I'd like to think the movement I love so much might be accepting of what I do.

    Baritastic, mate. I won't fall into your slanging match, but felt I should put the record straight. Go in peace.
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2010
  19. Bones

    Bones Member

  20. Bass Trumpet

    Bass Trumpet Active Member

    Aw, thankyou mate! (wipes tear from eye....)

    I was pretty down until you said that!
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