FODENS winning performance 2011

Discussion in 'The Adjudicators' Comments' started by Frontman, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. Frontman

    Frontman Member

  2. Tom Kuiling

    Tom Kuiling Member

    A little hard to compare the two in too much depth Dave because of the varying acoustics. A great performance in the St Georges Hall sounds so much better than one in the Winter Gardens. Fodens certainly the more cleaner. Sop player is amazing.

    I felt they were certainly different interpretations as well
  3. matti_raz

    matti_raz Member

    Interpretations wise, there is no comparison to be had. One draws everything out, the other highlights the hidden pace in everything. Clearly after two hugely different results, and I think both achieve them very well... A tiny supporting point, Withington's tempo in the 'allargando' bars four before A, is King's tempo at A- marked 'tempo giusto'. A somewhat arbitrary comparison I know, but highlights possibly the different approaches to the score by the best two 'interpretors' in the movement.

    I think, through a good set of speakers, which the BnR recording needs (with bass pumped up), I prefer Kings' reading and the way his players execute it! The space in some of the lines is beautiful, and works better with some of the indications in the score for the 'middle movement' variations. Yes, intonations rears it's head at times, but I don't think it detracts in the manner it can do... The difference between being flat and sounding flat and vice versa if you know what I mean?

    Though, I'd hazard a guess the Foden's recording wasn't taken 'on stage' it benefits from this because in comparison to the Brighouse one the balance is far more pleasant- on bogstandard speakers; with a proper sound system and some 'rebalancing' the Brighouse one can be remedied, but the overlying feeling that the microphones are just too close to cornets always remains, EVERY imperfection/blemish is heard, unlike the Foden's one which in the generic wash of sound a lot of stuff goes missing... Brighouse would probably have benefitted from some ambient mic's and a bass centred one somewhere near the back! Having said this, the detail in some of the cornet work is astounding and really shown off because of the closeness of the mics!

    Just some ramblings, feel free to disagree anyone who knows anything about the actually process by which the recordings were taken, (I should admit I've not had chance to put the Foden's one through anything other than my laptop speakers at the moment...)
  4. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    The NW 'recordings' are, er, unofficial.

    The Yorkshire recordings used to be done by Mike Briggs with a Soundfield and are officially part of the entry.

    One can infer nothing from comparing the two recordings.
  5. toby hobson

    toby hobson Member

  6. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Totally agree. I personally don't think the Brighouse recording was official (too many faults)
  7. HBB

    HBB Active Member

    Tom, the B+R recording that people have listened to is the 'official' one given as part of the entry I do believe. It's just a unbalanced! :)
  8. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    ... with micro-flutters as well? Odd! :rolleyes:
  9. It is an official recording because our recording is the same balance wise with the fuzzy interference, over the years the recordings have been quite good. Must be a new companey?
  10. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    The 'isuue' with the balance comes literally from where the microphone is relative to the band....if it was done as it has been historically (which is literally with a Soundfield mic which just acts in a similar way to a main pair of mics) then just a few inches either way will result in a totally different balance...

    So if you think about it, every time a band comes on and shifts the chairs the position of the band relative to the mic changes....and so will the balance....

    The only way to overcome changes like that is to mic from further away....or to multimic the stage and rebalance.....but then all you get is the engineer's perspective on the balance and not what's happening on the stage....

    Tom, I'm not sure what you mean by microflutters....I've not listened to either of the recordings....are you sure you're not hearing MP3 encoding artifacts?

    The distortion could be down to a few things - again I've not listened to it - could be bad gain structure, ground loops, encoding issues.....

    Like I've said before, they're just reference recordings.
  11. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    They're like micro echoes that are transient and constant, despite thinking that they could be caused by a streaming issue. There are also pairs of spikes that continue throughout the recording (like micro clicks).
  12. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member


    The clicks could be power issues or a clocking problem...

    Either way, all this just adds credence that one shouldn't use the recordings for 'critical' purposes.
  13. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Including some commercial ones too! ;) The recent recordings of Rococo Variations is a perfect example of this. Fodens capture the balance heard in the stalls at Symphony Hall and the Dyke one is detailed like the Beeb stage recordings. Which do you use dor reference?
  14. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    Having heard 3 winning performances on Paganini so far in order i would put
    1 Fodens
    2 GUS
    3 Brighouse
  15. sheilakey

    sheilakey New Member

    That's why you're a Butcher and not an Adjudicator! ;)
  16. ian perks

    ian perks Active Member

    Very Funy;
    How do you fancy been a butcher then:rolleyes: