European Recordings

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by Rob, May 7, 2012.

  1. Rob

    Rob Member

    Does anyone know why the European recordings that have been going up on Facebook all morning have now started being taken down again? I was enjoying listening to them - what is the reason for these being taken down? Something to do with rights to record?

    I know there will be the World of Brass DVD of the event coming out, but what about the performances that don't make it onto that - how does one get to listen to them? For example, I've always wanted to hear our (YBS') performance of the European set test in Belfast in 2006, the contest was recorded so is this sitting in an archive somewhere or is it available to purchase upon request??
  2. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    I'm quite sure it has everything to do with legalities and nothing else. You don't have to go far on here to understand the implications.

    Personally, I'm really looking forward to hearing the WoB DVD as, from all accounts, the contest was exceptional. I would also be interested in reading the thoughts of any TMP'ers who were there.
  3. Rob

    Rob Member

    Me too, I would like to really understand the legalities though, as from what I've read on here after reading your reply is there is a lot of ill-informed copyright 'advice' by those jumping on the holier-than-thou copyright enforcement bandwagon. Would also really like to find out (is World of Brass on here??) if individual performances NOT included on the disc are available for purchase? Surely they should be, at least to those playing in them, as its the performances given by the players that are the original source of such companies' income!

    Surprised at the complete lack of comment/discussion of the contest which, from accounts of mates who were there playing, seems to have been one of the best there has been. I've heard three of the own choice works (Dyke, Cory and Schoonhoven) and they're all fantastic! If Cory came 7th with that I'd have LOVED to have heard the rest. And the glisses to top F towards the end of Revelation are just stunning.
  4. euphoria

    euphoria Member

    This years Norwegian Championships were sold on iTunes. I believe I gave ca £8 which gave me all the bands performances of the set piece (the stunning Goldberg 2012) and all the own choice pieces in the championship section.

    I would love for the European Championships to do the same.

    Next year the Europeans will be held in Oslo, which hopefully means that it will be streamed on the internet.
  5. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Frank Renton mentioned several times from the stage that it was against the rules of de Doelen to record the performances. This is true of all major concert halls, not just at band contests.
  6. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    Both own-choice performances of Cory (7th!!!) and Manger (9th!!!) were simply outstanding, so it would be great if WoB could make them available, should they not make it onto the CD/DVD.
  7. euphoria

    euphoria Member

    Does the number of exclamation marks imply that you disagree with the adjudicators, Mr Sparke :cool:

    Cheers Erik
  8. Anglo Music Press

    Anglo Music Press Active Member

    I certainly had the bands in another order. But wasn't in the box, so it doesn't matter!

    JOCKBLAST! Member

    It doesn't matter! Mr Sparke wasn't in the box.
    I can only speak for Myself and it was so much fun.
    I think people would enjoy the Cory performance of Spiriti!
    The audience certainly did.

  10. simonium

    simonium Member

    I'm certainly not looking forward to hearing only two or three test pieces and two hours worth of light music that makes up the gala concert and normally fills up the WOB Euro DVDs. I would prefer an option to download each test piece individually as an MP4 rather than get a DVD which misses out 80% of the contesting action in favour of the European Youth Brass Band. Or a DVD option which consists only of the contest pieces?
  11. I completely agree, Simonium. Reading the 4br live coverage, all performances were supposed to be outstanding. I would personally like all test pieces from the contest on the DVD, not just a select few! It's just deserve for the people who played out of their skin and came low in the field!
  12. ilovespheres

    ilovespheres Member

    Cory's performance was nigh on would be sad for people not to hear it. The same goes for Manger.
  13. Statto

    Statto Member

    Although this was the best contest I've ever had the pleasure of attending - Dyke's performance on Friday, plus Cory and Manger on Saturday were worth the admission price alone - the best brass playing all weekend was actually in the gala concert! Royal Concertgebouw brass was simply stunning. The more that makes it onto the DVD the better!

    I do agree though that it would be fantastic were WoB to take a leaf out of the Norwegian's book and make ALL performances available for download at some stage (preferably studio quality). It would need a triple CD of the contest alone to do it justice and it's a shame if many of these performances are 'lost' in an archive vault.
  14. tromwinst

    tromwinst Member

    and until all contests make it so that bandsman can listen to their own performance and for listeners to have the option of buying a copy or download people will continue to keep recording them. Contests need to get on to this so as many people get the chance to listen to brass bands at their best as they can. Until then I will continue to listen to recordings that are on social media sites posted by others. Think about how many contests and concerts that go unrecorded, often where some of the best brass playing in pro/amature is happening. This is a massive waste and even if for personal memories and or progress to be made with your band, all performances should be recorded.
  15. Thirteen Ball

    Thirteen Ball Active Member

    There is also a lot of well-informed copyright information from the likes of Keith Johnson (proprietor KMJ recordings and naturally knows his onions with regard to similar legalities) in an attempt to stop well-intentioned people putting themselves in line for prosecution.

    Does one best not to tar all posts on the subject with the same brush, nor disregard what may in fact keep people out of the dock.....
  16. John Brooks

    John Brooks Well-Known Member

    Memory tells me that there have been a least four or five contest performances included on each recording to date. There were so many outstanding performances this year that WoB have a big challenge. I think the download idea is a good one but have no idea of the cost associated with getting a live recording ready for CD, DVD or download. It will certainly be interesting to see how they work it out.
  17. euphoria

    euphoria Member

    If I remember right, the Norwegian Championships had its performances ready for iTunes within days of the contest, so I suppose it is possible to do relatively cheaply (I have no experience in this matter though, so I may be wrong).

    With the hype surrounding this years European Championships, I would think that there would be quite some interest for a download of the performances.

  18. James Yelland

    James Yelland Active Member

    I expect you are right, but on the matter of cost, we must also remember that Norway has a very effective Band Federation, to which all Norwegian bands subscribe. As a result they are properly funded and are presumably in a position to provide the service you describe above even if it isn't a particularly cheap option.

    If only we had such organisation in the UK....
  19. simonium

    simonium Member

    Let's take the 2003 DVD as example James (as its the only one left that I own). I've owned them all and sold them quickly as I've found the balance poor and the brown nosing interviews cringeworthy. There are 4 sides to choose from, so effectively 4 discs. There are three complete test pieces - Aubade, Revelation and Concerto Grosso. There are excerpts from two others and YBS' performance of Apocalypse. The rest is generally cheesy, rehashed concert fluff.
    I make it out to be approx 75 minutes of test pieces, 17 minutes of meaningless excerpts of test pieces, 19 minutes of sycophantic un-informative and or / self congratulatory interviews and63 minutes of cheese, and I don't dare calculate how much screen time Renton used up. I don' think that is balanced in favour of the main event - the contest. As I no longer own the other discs (£25 seemed very steep to own two or three videos of test pieces) I cannot say the balance has not improved.
  20. KMJ Recordings

    KMJ Recordings Supporting Member

    Just add the costs into the entry fees......that'll make everyone happy, no?


    Don't worry about me, I'll be back shortly when I've just got some free pick 'n' mix from Woolworths.....oh mistake....they've gone....partly because of how people used to think it was OK to just take from them....shame, really, they were quite good....

    Assuming you have the source recording, John, they're not dissimilar. The bottom line is that it's a question of balancing, mastering and then getting it into an appropriate format for the distribution.

    Sometimes things undergo optimisation for download as part of the mastering process, sometimes not....obviously the former incurs extra charges / fees.

    It depends really on what you mean by relatively cheaply, to be honest. The simplistic answer is the same as that I gave to can just encode the audio and then find someone to host it. It can be fairly trivial.

    One finds, however, that some genres do it better than others.....there are a number of classical download sites that offer FLACs or high bitrate lossy downloads and so which case the recordings need to be good.....and if it's also going on a DVD there's also the potential for discrete mic positioning....all of which takes time and money and so on.

    It really depends on what one wants to achieve.
    Last edited: May 10, 2012

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