Euph that sounds like a trom???? :S

Discussion in 'The Rehearsal Room' started by groovy, Sep 20, 2004.

  1. groovy

    groovy Active Member

    I play the euph and trombone, but at the moment sadly I'm only on the trombone in almost all my bands. My brand new euph is spending too much time in the case! :cry: :ranting2: :-( Anyhoo, the real reason for this thread is about a comment made by my teacher. He said my euph playing sounds too trombone-like. But I'm not sure how to sound more euph-like, he just said I should push the air through more slowly. Any more tips? :dunno
  2. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Tips? Not really unless any of us here can get a chance to listen to you. Try recording yourself playing each instrument and listen to any qualitative differences. One of the famous US brass teachers, the late Arnold Jacobs, used to ask his pupils to think of the best sound for their instrument (i.e., another player's tone) and try to copy it. Switching between the two instruments I'll leave to those on this site who specialise in playing both instruments.
  3. Naomi McFadyen

    Naomi McFadyen New Member

    Open ya embourchour
    Low, long notes..... (for ages)
    Breathing exercises!
    Arban!!! :p
    Hymn tunes; easy slow melody pieces....

    etc etc etc etc

    :-D ;)
  4. JonP

    JonP Member

    Not sure who your teacher is but i cant imagine anything other than he means your sound is a little thinner than normal and your probably not using as much vib.

    Remember the majority of euphonium players that actually earn money at the instrument in the uk, outside banding, are trombone players. e.g dave stowe, andy forbert, etc etc. Find out exactky what it is he means and then judge whether you should really be taking it incredibly seriously!

    Use the similar mouthpice on both, use a large bore trombone and if playing in a band on euph use a vibrato that a trombone player would never ever consider on pain of death!!!

    p.s. apart from the valve technique both instruments are similar in most respects, productio, articulation etc, the biggest difference is that the euph will make an aceptable sound with much less effort than a trombone. (similar to a trumpet and cornet.)
  5. lynchie

    lynchie Active Member

    With the Euph having far more resistance to it than the trombone, you're probably used to pushing a lot of air through very quickly. Try opening up the embouchure and the throat a bit more when playing euph, and just relax (it's much easier than the trombone ;))
  6. brasscrest

    brasscrest Active Member

    Many trombone players don't properly execute slurs on valved instruments (mainly because such slurs turn into little glissandi on trombone). Try practicising the "portamento" section in Arbans. Valve players switching to trombone have the opposite problem - not enough coordination between slide and tongue.
  7. ScrapingtheBottom

    ScrapingtheBottom Active Member

    Only! :(

    Open your throat and relax your air flow, you need to remember that a good euph sound (in brass banding) is much rounder with less projection than a trombone.
  8. Dave Euph

    Dave Euph Member

    Certainly there are some pretty mean differences in sound between euph and trom! Being as I play both of them, I'm very concious of what I want out of each of them.

    When playing trombone, I aim for the impact and edge that makes the trombone sound famous (although, like a lot of players, I probably overdo it). Although interestingly enough, my old trombone teacher once told me I sounded like a Russian trombone player. I'm yet to determine what he meant, but maybe it has something to do with soft, warm sounds - typical of a euphonium player!

    The euphonium is a different kettle of fish. I hate weedy, airy sounds (although that doesn't mean I have a good sound by any stretch of the imagination!). I go for the warmth, the roundness, and I tend to use perhaps a little too much vib. This does provide problems in killing it for the trombone playing, but gives me the sound I want.

    So really, just aim for the sound you want to achieve, which shouldn't be too hard considering both instruments are used in very different situations (wipe that dirty look off your face!).

    Kepps: You seem to have dumped this in the wrong thread Dave, so I've moved it in here for you
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 21, 2004
  9. Gorgie boy

    Gorgie boy Member

    I reckon that if you push the air through more slowly all that will happen is that you'll play quieter. The speed that you push the air through dictates the volume you play and I can't really see it affecting anything else.

    I used to play the euph years ago and always seemed to manage to get it to sound like a trombone!!
  10. groovy

    groovy Active Member

    Thanks for all the help guys! btmborn, I think you may be right - tone too thin and not enough vib! I have been listening to some Childs/Mead etc to give me a better idea of what I'm trying to achieve.
  11. paddo

    paddo Member

    you see, when you play the BBb nobody says you sound like euph! do they now.......
    play an instrument that's distinctive........
  12. groovy

    groovy Active Member

    I didn't mean this was a bad thing! I just meant I would like to do euph in some and trom in others, instead of only the trombone. ;)
  13. ed_the_euph

    ed_the_euph Member

    Ah!!! - sounds familiar!

    I have to admit, My boss told me exactly the same thing... I play Trom in the Blues and Royals, and on the rare occasion when i got asked to play for a church service on Euph, (which was what I played b4 joining the Army!) he said I sounded like a Trom.. but he also said that all Euph players he's experienced, who have dep'd on Trombone, have made the Trom sound like a euph!..

    so.. point I was making? I am still trying to transition between the two on a regular basis, and find that the Euph takes more diaphramatic support, and I have a habit of playing too straight.. all the points made above are very relevant, and have helped me to realise that it's not just me! (Thanks all!) although, the comment about pushing the air through more slowly is a bit odd... like I say, It takes more support.. just try to take the edge off it.. and a little vib wouldn't go amiss.. (Warm the sound up!)

    I am by no means an expert.. and am still trying to work the subtleties between the two instruments out! - but good luck! - don't let that Euph sit idle for too long though.. I'm finding my fingers get tired doing variation type stuff! (or am I just getting old?)
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2004
  14. brassneck

    brassneck Active Member

    Another point to add to this is the role of tenor tuba in orchestras. Probably is more common for a euph-playing trombone player to get a gig in a professional orchestra than a natural euph-player because of the very much controlled vibrato aspect of tenor tuba playing. 'The Planets'. 'Don Juan' (R. Strauss) and Mahler Sym.5 maybe good examples?

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